Yes they, the military industrial complex are trying to contain China and monopolise energy and resources.Nothing much has changed since the Colonial days.Our Oligarchs want to control the planet.Less competition in energy and resources means higher prices and poverty for us.

Be aware of propaganda demonising China.China is not using violence in Africa.The Africans love them because they are not just taking but are building infrastructure and industry that gets the people out of poverty.

China has won the peace because our leaders have destroyed our economies with unnecessary debt,destroyed industry with over regulation and elimination of tarrifs, created bloated bureaucracies that tax us into oblivion and sold off Public assets like the Commonwealth Bank that used to reduce our taxes.Also our nanny states use tax churning to bribe their way into power and make people dependant upon socialist handouts.

Big Corporates are stealing from the masses and disobeying the rule of law.They have taken over our Govts and we just are oblivious to the reality and care not what Orwellian future awaits our children.

The West is in the throes of moral,social,economic decay and we have not reached bottom yet.

I thought it was a good summary and crystallises my feelings on it.
I am glad he did not forget the French and the Belgians, still living out their "Heart of Darkness" fantasies there as well.
Both Arjay and John Pilger also mention the new kid on the block, the Chinese back to curry favour in the post colonial world, to break the Western encirclement of themselves.
"Diamond" David Cameron and no doubt Russians, Israelis, Italians and others will also have their roles to play, really quite revolting..

Thanks Paul Walter.I think China's plan is to use the cheap Afican labour to manufacture their goods thus allowing wages to rise at home,expanding a new middle class that will consume more of their products.They have 1200 million people and only a third of these people are involved in the present boom.If people do not earn enough money to consume the products they produce,then there is no economic/social advancement

This will make China more independant of Western markets and increase their wealth nationally.

The USA is still by far the most powerful military on the planet.If we go to war with China,who will buy our energy/resources? Where will we get our cheap cars and computers from?

The other hidden secret of China's power is that Govt Banks create 80% of its new money, whereby in the West,new money is created as debt by private banks.Our Govts have to borrow from private banks for infrastructure or let private Corps own it and bill us.This is why China can grow at 8-12% while the West is lucky to get 2-3% growth.Looking at our financial structure we can never beat China economicly because of our debt based money creation system.

China does not want a war with us as it can win the peace.

Are you guys serious?

China the good guy and the West mere exploiters.

perhaps you need to ask ordinary Chinese their views about the Chinese political elite.

Here is an interesting piece on china

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/mark-kitto-youll-never-be-chinese-leaving-china/

others disagree at end of article

The Chinese expansion into Africa is having mixed results, and is certainly not the love-fest that some correspondents would have us believe. There are numerous incidents of exploitation and outright racism towards local workers, while some of the infrastructure projects involve the building of palaces and gardens for the dictators and semi-dictators of states who welcome China's relaxed attitude towards human rights abuses. For a balanced and well-researched account of China's involvement in Africa read China Safari by Serg Michel and Michael Beuret, with some very telling photographs by Paolo Woods.

Graham Cooke says the following:

"The Chinese expansion into Africa is having mixed results, and is certainly not the love-fest that some correspondents would have us believe. There are numerous incidents of exploitation and outright racism towards local workers, while some of the infrastructure projects involve the building of palaces and gardens for the dictators and semi-dictators of states who welcome China's relaxed attitude towards human rights abuses."

He accuses the Chinese of exploitation, outright racism, building of palaces for dictators, etc, etc.

The U.S. has been engaged in exploitation, outright racism, supporting dictators, torture, rendition, massacres, wholesale destruction, sanctions which starve kids to death, use of depleted uranium and Agent Orange, false flag operations, stealing of resources following invasion and occupation, war crimes, lying, gross hypocrisy, rampant imperialism, etc.

Which planet have you been living on for the last sixty years, Grahame?

Yes DavidG I can hear the war mongerers all lining up to demonise China.Do you all know why now China is being demonised?

Well remember the GFC back in 2008,with the Western world owing $ trillions to China.China was expected to roll over and allow the Western Banking system take over.When they refused and wanted to maintain their financial soverignity the Western Oligarchs started to demonise them.They wanted to enslave China in debt just like we are.

Now the West is reducing this debt by "Quantative Easing" which is just another name for money printing that is depreciating our labour and our purchasing power.Our house prices are now falling due to the policies of our Govts of limiting land supply,taxes which over inflated them etc and the banks in past loaning too much too easily.

Even with low rates people don't have much confidence in our economy.

David G and Arjay, perhaps you have better ideas about what the West should do, and/or what will be the consequences of alternative strategies.

Oh dear David G, did I mention the United States once? My comments were concerned only about China's involvement in Africa, not about the US's faults worldwide, real or imagined, going back over the past 50 years.
Lesson one in journalism: Stick to the point.
Lesson two: Spell names correctly. My name is Graham.

What's the alternative John?
Another dozen or so mass murdering Idi Amins?
Or the genocide of Rwanda, made endless or daily routine?
Personally I think we in the west, intercede far too little, and ought to have been in there boots and all, when evil tyrant Mugabbee, started murdering all and sundry in Zimbabwe, just so he could hold onto illegally obtained power; creating mass misery and the world's worst economy into the bargain!
I believe any "reporter" ought to report the news, warts and all, rather than spin the hell out of it? Like we might have expected of the likes of power stealing Lenin or mass murdering Stalin?
Rhrosty.

Dear Graham, you mentioned in your one-sided anti-China comment that China is involved with Africa but you didn't mention the saturation involvement of the U.S. in Africa via AFRICOM.

If you claim to be a journalist then keep in mind the word 'balance'.

P.S. And I really don't think most Australians care whether you spell your first name with or without an 'e'!

>>He accuses the Chinese of exploitation, outright racism, building of palaces for dictators, etc, etc.

The U.S. has been engaged in exploitation, outright racism, supporting dictators, torture, rendition, massacres, wholesale destruction, sanctions which starve kids to death, use of depleted uranium and Agent Orange, false flag operations, stealing of resources following invasion and occupation, war crimes, lying, gross hypocrisy, rampant imperialism, etc.<<

Huh? I don't follow.

You seem to be saying saying that China's involvement in Africa is completely innocent because the US are dicks too. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work: can only one country be engaged in objectionable behavior a time? That can't be right: North Korea have been consistently massive dicks for a long time now and the US still invaded Iraq. Do two or more wrongs make a right - if we sum up the dickery from Burma, North Korea, America and Israel does that let China and Morocco off the hook?

Cheers,

Tony

Tony, I think you've been working too hard this week.

Better take the weekend off, get yourself back together, take in a movie or go surfing.

Cheers.

David G,

http://tinyurl.com/ap8j3mk

Cheers,

Tony

The photograph of you was very good, Tony, but I thought you'd be much younger.

P.S. You seem to have a penchant for talking about dicks. A psychologist might be able to help you!

Gentlemen, are we not rather straying from the point. Pilfer had some important things to say about what is happening in North Africa at the moment. Much of what he says is not reported in the mainstream western media, who are for the most part simply the mouthpieces of the military-industrial-intelligence complex.

The facts are that the west is pursuing its age old policies of colonial exploitation, electing to target those countries that have resources that the rich countries want. The Americans, British and French use their military might to support that economic exploitation. The reason Zimbabwe hasn't been invaded is presumably because Mugage doesn't rule a resource rich country. The fact that he is a murderous tyrant does not bother the US which has a long history of supporting dictators as long as they toe the American line.

To raise china's lack of respect for human rights is simply laughable. Sure they are les than paragons of virtue in Africa, but how many military bases does China have outside their own sphere of influence? Exactly none. The US alone has over 1000 and is busily creating more in Africa. Read the books that Pilger refers to: it should inform the views of some of you who clearly don't let facts hinder your opinions.

James O'Neill makes an important observation about Mugabe and Zimbabwe.The West ignores his atrocities and then targets Syria (Pres Assad) and Lybia ( Gaddafi)as oppressive tyrants.The USA sets up dictators like Saddham and calls this freedom.Saddham had to go because he started trading oil in Euros and this would weaken the US $.

Lybia was invaded because Gaddafi was in the process of producing a gold backed currency for Africa again threatening the US $.He also had gold and oil which they could take.30,000 Chinese oil workers were forced out of Libya when NATO invaded.

BTW Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick have just finished a 10 part series and book entitled,'The Untold History of the USA'.It took them almost 5yrs to produce.In an interview on Russia Today Oliver Stone said that the USA had turned into an Orwellian State.So put pressure on our ABC to air it.

Get used to it, the West is going to make greater effort to counter the rise of China. And it is not just about carving up Africa, although there is no doubt that mighty economies crave natural resources.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2012/01/03/commentary/chinese-military-bases-are-about-more-than-just-naval-supplies-and-protecting-trade-routes/

Maybe i misunderstood what i learned about history at university and through observations, but i can't help thinking Western influence is still much better than what ould be offered by a corrupt authoritiarian state.

Funny thing is most regional nations seem to be agree. Can they all be wrong?

Yes, the Chinese are also active in Africa, particularly where there are copious mineral resources! One notes this is not a new phenomena and that the BENIGN Chinese, have been in expansionist mode for centuries.
John seems to be very selective or Americanistic in his complaints.
He seems strangely silent on places like Tibet, or the military expansion of China, that is far and away, massively ahead of any potential threat they might ever face?
And lets face it, the world is changing and power and influence is progressively moving from west to east!
When that transition is complete, will John be just as contemptuous of the new bully on the block?
My bet is, he is already in their camp?
Rhrosty.

Chris Lewis

Thanks for the link to the Prospect article.

What especially caught my eye was this paragraph:

>>Once you’ve purchased the necessary baubles, you’ll want to invest the rest somewhere safe, preferably with a decent return—all the more important because one day you will have to pay your own medical bills and pension, besides overseas school and college fees. But there is nowhere to put it except into property or under the mattress. The stock markets are rigged, the banks operate in a way that is non-commercial, and the yuan is still strictly non-convertible. …The result is the biggest property bubble in history, which when it pops will sound like a thousand firework accidents.>>>

Here's what the Economist has to say:

>>To escape this financial repression, savers have sought refuge first in the stockmarket and then in the property market. Now some are seeking financial asylum abroad. The Hurun Report, a marketing firm, reckons that wealthy Chinese (with over 10m yuan to their name) hold 19% of their assets overseas. (Hurun found that some 85% of them plan to send their children to school outside China and 44% have plans to emigrate themselves.)

Owning foreign property is no longer a dream limited to the super-wealthy. SOME SMALLISH INVESTORS ARE EYEING PROPERTIES IN SECOND-TIER AMERICAN CITIES LIKE PHOENIX, ARIZONA. But what about capital controls, which limit Chinese citizens to taking out $50,000 a year? “I don’t really worry about that,” one investor says. “The Chinese are known for finding all sorts of channels for sending their money out of the country.”>>

(My capitalisation)

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21565277-economic-repression-home-causing-more-chinese-money-vote-its-feet-flight

In addition Chinese investors seem to own many of the apartments in Melbourne's Docklands.

Real super-powers do not suffer capital flight. Generally they benefit from other countries' capital flight.

Just one more reason why I'm sceptical about China supplanting the US as global hegemon.

I think there is more than a little wishful thinking among America-haters when it comes to China.

I stand by my piece "Is the USA in 'irreversible decline'?"

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=13872

Maybe it's time for a follow-up.

Happy new year all :)

Further to my previous post:

I want to re-iterate that when I write "China" I mean "Communist China, the authoritarian behemoth we have all come to know." There is always the possibility that China, like South Korea and Taiwan, will morph into a decent democracy.

Steven, by a decent democracy I hope you don't mean the U.S.A. and its warmongering Allies.

In America, money buys any politician you can name. They're all owned by the corporations and the billionaires. And when they leave politics, they work for the corporations and open all the right doors for them.

Democracy in the U.S. and elsewhere has been corrupted. The military in the U.S. does the bidding of the corporations and rapes and plunders wherever there are resources to make a buck from.

Democracy is no longer a shining light, more a cesspool.

What planet is Chris Lewis on? He refers to China as a corrupt authoritarian state.Well Chris the West has surpassed China or Russia in corruption fascism and war mongering.

Heard of the Patriot Act,legalised assasination and the NDAA? All of these negate Habeas Corpus.As Oliver Stone says the USA is living is an Orwellian State.1700 million messages are intercepted each day by intelligence agencies in the USA.

Open your Chris Lewis,fascism is at your door step and China is not the new terrorist on the block.

Did you know Chris that the Gulf of Tonkin incident which the USA used to send troops to Vietnam didn't happen? No North Vietnam ships attacked US ones.Vietnam was all about Chemical Companies making money by murdering people and the selling of arms + the banks loaning of money to the US Govt for war.They are really disgusting.

Just for the record:

On 25 August 2012 at 8:27:36 AM David G posted the following:

>>If there has been hatred of Jews over centuries then there must be some reason for this which must have something to do with Jews themselves.>>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=14025&page=0

This tells me what sort of a person he is.

Long experience has shown me there is never any point in trying to engage in any sort of dialogue with such a person.

Under the circumstance I do not see any point in responding to his posts.

Stevenlmeyer,I think you miss the point.The Jews do not have the monopoly on halocaust or oppression.There were 60 million Chinese murdered by Mao.20 million murdered by Starlin and only 6 million murdered by Hitler.

Is a Jewish life worth far more than a Chinese or Palistinian one?

I was brought up in the Catholic faith a long time ago and they had the Zionist arrogrance in the 1960's of believing that only Catholics were worthy of an after life if we belived their BS.What's the difference between the Catholic ,Muslim and Jewish BS? They all believe that they are superior to everyone else and need to wage war to prove it.WTF?

Arjay, i do not deny flawed decisisons by West.

My opinion, however, much geater influence by authoritarian China would be much worse.

Chris, you need to take a long hard look at what is actually going on in the US -China confrontation. I suggest that you take a few minutes to read William Engdahl's latest piece published yesterday in www.globalresearch.ca.

I think that it is tolerably clear that the US is pursuing policies that will inevitably lead to a catastrophic confrontation with China. Australia is affected in multiple ways. It is clear that the Australian government got its orders when Obama was here last year and addressed Parliament.

I think that your choice between authoritarian China and the "democratic" west is a false dichotomy. Following the US line has got us involved in disastrous and illegal wars, and a party to multiple atrocities around the world. Bob Carr's refusal to condemn the latest, US supported, act of international aggression by the Israelis is a sign of where our allegiances do not equate with our best interests.

I urge you to read Engdahl. He is more often right than wrong and there is much in that article to ponder.

James and Arjay, I strongly support your views and I condemn Australia supporting the world's biggest imperialist and warmonger: the U.S.A.

Our politicians are mainly brain-dead or controlled by the corporations and they will leave our country isolated from the region we are located in.

The U.S. is a malignant curse and has been since its inception! It is leading the world to hell!

Stevenlmeyer.
I know from experience that there's no point talking to a rape victims about what motivates rapists or a battered wife about trends in domestic violence, it only upsets them and makes one look mean.
So it its with believers of the narrative of Jewish suffering,there's no point in discussing statistics, matters of history and causal relationships in relation to the Pogrom, only emotions matter.
I'll give you an example:
As Mark Dreyfus pointed out in response to Christopher Pyne's recent "Downfall" soundbite, such comments are offensive to Holocaust survivors and all "right thinking" Australians, ie only feelings matter.
A better rebuttal would have been to point out that Pyne was in fact being deliberately provocative but that he's making a factually correct comparison, Hitler's closest supporters and admirers stayed with him right until the end, for better or worse, so it is with Gillard and her inner circle, Dreyfus could have pointed out that, for better or worse the Labor faithful will stand up for their leader and their beliefs, instead he chose to condemn the remarks (of a person who seems to know no shame anyway) on the basis that "feelings" might be hurt, playing on a victim mentality instead of turning the tables on Pyne with a witty riposte and a bit of old fashioned machismo.

Great news! With the UN clearly failing to take strong or any action in many war-torn parts of the world, it's good to see the world's most powerful democracy step in to try and bring some stability and peace to the world's most failed continent.

Bernie, your sense of irony does you credit.

Stevenimeyer There are two quite important areas of democratic activity. One political, the other economic. I'm hard pressed to settle on one good example to recommend that the countries of the world might follow. On a scale of 1 to roughly 250 the top 50 places would not be filled.
Cheers
Den71

DEN71,

I am not passing moral judgments. I am not saying USA Good, China Bad.

I am taking a purely pragmatic view. The Chinese system of government seems to me to be excessively brittle. It has performed brilliantly in taking a country that was a basket case in the 1970s* and turning it into a contender for world power in the 21st Century. It is fair to say that we all live in the world Deng Xiaoping created.

But from here on it gets harder. If it is to supplant the US as the global hegemon, which seem to be the ambition of the Chinese leadership, it will have to do it by climbing up the value / technology chain with a declining and aging population. I'm not saying they can't do it. But I am saying that the Chinese Communist Party is going to have to let go some of its power, allow more flexibility, if that is to happen. Will they be able to do it?

In South Korea and Taiwan, once a certain level of economic development had been attained, authoritarian regimes transformed themselves into fairly decent democracies without any revolution being necessary though there was some unrest. Can that happen in China?

I don’t know. But if it doesn't I think Chinese growth will stall.

The fact that China is suffering such capital flight that even middle-class people want to build up an offshore nest egg says to me that maybe they know something we don't.

It is also becoming increasingly apparent that China's neighbours want the US, warts and all, to remain involved in the Asia Pacific. They recognise that only the US can serve as a counterweight to China.

The danger for China is the middle-income trap. Many countries grow till they reach a sort of middle-income level and then seem unable to take the next step.

Of course China is so massive that even at a middle-income level it would have by far the world's largest economy.

*Of course the Communist Party helped turn it into a basket case.

Communism (egalitarianism) turns every country it touches into a basket case, it's particularly relevant to any discussion of Africa's "woes".
Pilger, like all good Leftists promotes the idea of African hypoagency and the narrative of non White suffering, and what's his solution,his "big idea"?
Global Marxist Socialism, the millstone around the neck of the Third World is his proposed solution.

Steven,
If I'm right you're a Jewish person of South African birth, correct?
What's your opinion of the program of genocide which since 1994 has been directed at South African Jewry by the racist Black Marxists of the ANC?
I'm just curious why the supporters of the narrative of Jewish suffering are still flogging the dead horse of the "Holocaust", events which will soon be beyond human memory as opposed to the very real and persistent problems diaspora Jews face on a daily basis?
What about the looming Genocide of Jews in the low countries at the hands of racist African and Arab thugs?
The definition of genocide under international law is very broad and the examples I've listed certainly fit within the parameters set out in the relevant international conventions.

Stevenlmeyer
Thanks for your thoughtful response to my comment. Of course most of the issues discussed on these pages are multi-layered so it makes a difficulty to know when one has confused one layer with another as, often seems the case. This is not said to diminish the insightful comments which are often made by many such as yourself.

My comment was made to focus on the issue of whether many people have any real insight into what the parameters and qualities of democracy actually are or should be. Because of this lack of insight a state of confusion exists which causes a failure to understand that much of the criticism aimed at the "other side" also applies to the regimes on "our side". In Australia as an example who amongst our leadership or populace for that matter take the trouble to analyse the archaic and limited scope our constitution, we all continue with our heads buried in the sand. Its no wonder that we get screwed from behind. The constitution as it stands at present provides no restrictions on Governing conventions nor does it give a legal basis for the democratic rights of our citizens. We consent to the idea that we live in a "democracy" without realising that by giving one party or the other a mandate to govern what we are in fact doing is, in reality, supporting a mandate to dictate. If australian truly want democracy they must first address the limitations of our founding document.
Den 71