Agree fully with the concept of “victimisation”. How much of this ““victimisation”.is real, and how much is imagined or internally exaggerated is a different matter (although some mental conditions are organic, or can be triggered by high levels of stress, wrong types of foods, lack of exercise etc).

Of great concern is media that is purposely designed to make someone feel oppressed, suppressed or depressed, so that they feel in need of something new, (which of course has to be purchased). That media would be producing a race of perpetually unhappy consumers, and nothing on the planet will ever make them happy.

Ironic also, how that media becomes so popular.

I agree with this. I reckon a great deal of distress is caused by the disastrous way capitalism has gone to extremes in the western world, depressing wages, making life really damn hard for everyone. Capitalists tax everyone more than 70% as seen in exhorbitant rents and mortgages, bills from monopolies, etc. And the Howard government has been the highest taxing government we've ever seen with the GST, shifting the tax burden from corporations and the wealthy onto the average person. It all adds up and we pay for the lot. How many psychological problems have their roots in economic problems? A great deal, I'd say.

That is an exellent observation and so true, C.T, I think you overshot the target area with that little conspirecy, More so to do with Liberalism's interpritation of Natural Pain, where as once you lived with it and evolved around it, and changed to avoid it, is all to hard for some liberated reality deniers, so substance or Amphedomines are the inter-galactic space cadet way of escaping such pain, or facing up to reality.
Just seem's ODD, Pain is a natural biological warning system,Emotional or Physical, tampering with it can only lead to Halm, at worst, DEATH.
Best to relieve Humanity of libeterianism and get back to basics I would have thought.After all, Man is only a biological organism, tampering with the natural hormonal and chemical constituency will alter the evolved purpose, and that can not be good. Then You become a victim of your own stupidity.Or their children become a victim of their stupidity, and that really hurts.

I cant say I am aware of an "explosion of mental health problems. I wouldnt put too much faith in isolates surveys. Invariable at the margins there is always room for mis-diagnosis and or lazy diagnosis - but that does not represent the core of the problem.

Pointing to outlier phenomenon such as over prescribing of Ritalin and similar drugs does not lend itself in any way to the broad generalisations he makes about learned dependance. But then again this is the guy who tries to justify the use of landmines. This argument and his landmine treatise strike me as mere intellectual exercises; as he his a debating "champion" it might be like the Monty Python sketch and he is arguing in his spare time and/or just for the sake of it.

I have seen no real evidence of a myth of depression either and Alex fails to show us any; in fact it is rather a dumb position do adopt for one so erudite. Run any awareness campaign and you will get over reporting and "false positives" it is up to the clinicians to sort the wheat from the chaff and by and large they do.

Where there is some merit in what Deane says - no matter how over stated - it is lost in the rhetoric of "tuff love".

The veiw taken by Deane represents the kind of self-made man/cult of the lucky individual ethos that sucks at the entrails of the larger community like some kind of parasite. Take away the host and the parasite dies. Like so many of those of Deanes ilk they are only there through the agency of a larger supportive community - until such time as we wake up to ourselves that is.

Yes I agree sneeky.

Deane is writing way outside his area of expertise. His generalisations about psychological processes and trends are not the stuff of a Barrister.

Hitting people lower down the social tree (while veiling it as a criticism of doctors and drug companies) suggests that this manifestly cherubic chap has political aspirations.

Deane's tone seems to echo a politician's "quip" made about Brogden.

I think a senior post under Prime Minister Abbott is on the cards...

There is a fair amount of truth in what Alexander says.We all know it is no that simplistic and yes there are real mental health problems that aren't being dealt with.

I think some of it has to do with a much more complex and information overloaded society.Family breakdown and thus no support systems when things get tough.Also I have a theory that we once had family bonds created by outside threats to our survival that are no longer there hence we have a society that is shallow with no real emotional or communication ties.Very often a life threatening event will shake us out of our complacency and what seems to be a problem vanishes and we get on with our survival.

Perhaps families and fellow workers should do some dangerous activities together to enhance their emotional bonding and get things into perspective.I think part of it is also is what we have forgotten how to play and have fun socially without the aid of drugs such as alcohol.

It is not as simple as Alexander suggests but ADS ADD XYZ and their cousins are over diagnosed and over prescribed.

I broadly agree with sneekeepete and plantagenet.

Deane is a barrister, not a psychiatrist. He is quite clearly not qualified to comment on whether any diagnosis of mental illness is correct.

It is nonsense to suggest that "things have gone too far" just because mental illnesses are generally more readily recognised than was the case 50 or 100 years ago. Mental illness was poorly understood at those times in comparison to other fields of medical science, and it is still poorly understood in relative terms today.

Mental illness is so often the wholly subjective experience of the sufferer. Yes, physical pain is also subjective to some degree - two people may experience different levels of pain after suffering the same physical injury. But at least when your leg is broken or your skin slashed, there is visible evidence of this to satisfy the observer that your injury is "genuine".

Therein lies the great problem that sufferers of mental illness face - they don't have a physical injury which can be used as evidence to satisfy the ignorant, unimaginative or uncompassionate.

I'm not suggesting that all diagnoses are accurate, or that there is equal merit in every new field of pharmacological research. But it is particularly ignorant and distasteful for Deane to suggest that depression is a "myth". He has obviously never suffered from it himself, or been close to anyone who has. Or perhaps, as someone not remotely qualified to comment on the subject, he is operating under the mistaken belief that depression just involves "feeling a bit down" or "having a bad day". I can assure him that it is much, much more than this. His comment make about as much sense as suggesting that someone with a heart condition should just "snap out of it and do some exercise".

World history is littered with examples of high-achieving, successful and wealthy sufferers of depression across a range of human endeavours. It is arrant nonsense (via a logical extension of Deane's arguments) to suggest that the symptoms from which all of these people suffered were nothing more than a "myth".

BC2 ,it is not all nonsense.A school wanted to put a boy on Ritilan because of his behaviour problems.Now I've known this boy for 11yrs.He might have a few learning problems but always polite,civil and social.

Now I went to this same school back in 1970.If we misbehaved we were canned.Drugs are now being used to avoid confrontation and the need to discipline.To ask Psychologists to be honest about their inherent bias is like asking lawyers or barristers if there is too much litigation.

Don't you think we need some independant assessment?

Alexander

Thank your for your article.

BC - as a psychiatric/mental health nurse since 1978 - I generally agree with your sentiments. Clearly you have some understanding of mental illness. I guess the problem is that people like Alexander loosely use terms such as "mental health problems" and "mental health issues" to cover a gamit of social problems.

Alexander points out the problem of medicalising and over diagnosis. I agree with that. Children are far too frequently diagnosed with ADD and ADHD. I have nursed kids and conducted family therapy in this regard. My experience has been that much of the stuff has been to do with dysfunctional families and dysfunctional parents. Egocentric people who want a quick fix for their social problems.

I have never nursed a child who has had any demonstable gains from Ritalin.

But I have to disagree with Alexander's assertion that depression is a myth. From my experience, depression is the common cold of mental illness (Hase & Douglas, 1986). Clinical depression is a crippling, diagnosable, and treatable mental illness. It is not analogous with "the everyday blues" - which most of us get at one time or another.

Cheers
Kay

Arjay, was it a school of salmon or tuna perchance? Otherwise, "canning" would seem a little excessive for misbehaviour :)

More seriously, what is it about so many lawyers that they feel the need to pontificate in areas that are so patently beyond their expertise? A world champion debater he may be, but Deane needs to brush up on his psychiatry if he wants to take on people with mental illnesses like clinical depression and ADD/ADHD in such a dismissive way.

Any cursory reading of the mountains of literature about depression, for example, would inform him that the "pull yourself together" approach is the very last thing that a person suffering that insidious disease needs. ADD/ADHD is a bit more controversial - but again there is a wide literature that suggests that its increasing incidence is due to more than simply the 'medicalisation' of a behavioural problem.

Having worked in this area myself, I think that the etiologies of these mental illnesses are complex and involve both sociocultural and biological factors. To some extent, I think they are generated by contemporary lifestyles and rapid sociocultural change. Increasing diagnosis of these conditions is consistent with such a hypothesis.

Although it is wise to treat pharmacological 'silver bullets' with some caution, appropriate medication should not be rejected out of hand by those who do not have expertise in these areas.

mmm...?Is conservative, sqaure jawed stiff upper lip bavado rugged individualism a mental illness?

Alexander Deane is a Barrister and he read English Literature at Trinity College. Perhaps he should have read a few Phantom comics while he was at it?

He's much too young to be sounding like an old goat from the British aristooooocracy

"He jests at scars, that never felt a wound."

When Alex grows up he may acquire a bit of compassion for people in need of medical intervention for their mental illness.

Meanwhile, attitudes like his compound the problems of patients and their families, and provide governments with a rationale for cutting mental health services.

and.....on a lighter note about 'victims'..... still writing from my hotel in Singapore.

Went for a walk yesterday, down Scotts Road, up Bukit Timah road to Stephens road, and up an inconspicuous Dalvy Road where the Israeli Embassy lurks. Protected by 3 layer outer barriers. Small 3 ft wall, 30cm Ballards then an 8ft concrete fence all around. Gates have multi layer barriers also. Beautiful tropical trees, palms of all description, then onto the Botanical gardens. Amazing 80 yr old palm which flowers only once in its life, at age around 80. flowered in 2004, will die soon.

Surrounded by Asian people waving their hands about doing Tai Chi to the sound of oriental whining music wofting through the early morning haze.

Then there was the guy looked at me and raved on about who knows what... I thought he was 80c in the doller.. turned out he was enthusiastically greeting the guy behind me.

Then, (and this is the victim bit) I watched this 30something bloke walking his very muscular boxer dog across the grass. Suddenly it felt 'nature' call and dropped a bundle. Then, proceeded to lay down in said bundle, and stayed there, with a gleeful look on it's face. The owner could not believe his eyes.
He ended up wiping its rear, and then (look on his face during this was priceless) its newly endowed shoulder area.... poor guy.

I agree with Alexander Deane, The only difference between today and years past is that we can “label” and “catalogue” more explicitly the range of maladies and ailments which afflict humanity.
That previously, such things as “depression” had no “label” and had no medical remedy does not mean it did not exist, That its occurrence was ignored merely means people were more concerned with other issues.

“Victims” exist. Unfortunately they are, invariably, victims of their own inadequacies and whilst that is sad, it remains their individual responsibility to deal with their circumstances and find solutions to the issues which depress them.

ConspiracyTheory “I agree with this. I reckon a great deal of distress is caused by the disastrous way capitalism has gone to extremes in the western world, depressing wages, making life really damn hard for everyone. Capitalists tax everyone more than 70%”

I am quite sure circumstances under the “glorious peoples collective” was far more depressing, trapped behind the iron curtain, extended vacations in a Siberian gulag being the only diversion from an existence of drudgery.

As for 70% tax – you demean your own posts with such drivel.

I have suggested before and will again, rather than making fatuous and inaccurate observations of western economic structures, suggest something better to replace them with.

Personally, I find nothing depressing with being allowed to follow my own destiny / life path. I have worked in a range different roles in different industries and have “grown” to the point that I decide which jobs I will do and which I will decline. I find having almost complete and total control over my own time management and deployment leaves me with no frustrations, no stress and nothing which resembles depression.

However, “blaming capitalism” is a typical “victim” response by those who are inadequate and lacking in skills, thus your criticism is explained and could be readily “labelled”, “catalogued” and resolved by an intense course of prozac – just don’t use any machinery or take on any challenging tasks whilst under medication.

Col Rouge - with respect, I would suggest that as someone who has apparently not had any first-hand experience dealing with major ("clinical") depression, you do not have all the facts required to offer an informed opinion on the subject.

In a certain proportion of cases, it is simply not possible for a sufferer of depression, by means of exercising "individual responsibility", to recover simply by "finding solutions to the issues which depress them". This is just another way of saying that they should "snap out of it", which is now widely recognised as being utter nonsense.

It would be just as absurd for me, as a physically fit and healthy person, to suggest that a sufferer of heart disease (or poor eyesight, for that matter) could cure himself "if he just improved his attitude".

Yes, there are people who become temporarily depressed after a major life event (such as a marriage break-up or the death of a loved one) and recover over time without significant intervention from health professionals.

But there are many more for whom there is not such a convenient explanation, and who suffer over extended periods. Such people may well have "everything to live for" and no social, economic, personal or other reason for malingering or manufacturing symptoms. I point again to world history being littered with examples of successful people who have suffered from depression in spite of their success.

Yes, depression did exist in earlier times and no, it wasn't always labelled as such (although there were certainly plenty of other names by which it was known). But it is illogical to suggest that an absence of labels and treatments suggests that we were dealing with the problem better then than we are now.

Apparently we need to add psychiatry to Col Rouge's list of areas of expertise, which also includes

* corporate accountancy
* Indonesian jurisprudence
* the wit and wisdom of Margaret Thatcher

...amongst many other talents, no doubt.

We are indeed fortunate to blessed with the regular pronouncements of such a polymath! However, it's a shame that Col's humanity and compassion aren't as evident in his posts here as are his pride and open disdain for those who aren't Masters of the Universe, as he evidently is.

With all due respect, Col - do you actually care about anybody other than yourself, your immediate family, and Margaret Thatcher?

In all honesty mahatma you have to agree that in the nebulus and complex world of psychiatry that your profession does tend to over medicate.I bet that if a study was done on prescriptions,the amount of medication would increase expodentially with the lower socio/economic groups.We do tend to look for quick fixes.

How do you get off the psychotropic drugs?Show your analyst your enormous bank balance.

I think we need to look at broader social causes such as our mega cities, loneliness etc.Being social creatures we need others for motivation ,self worth and getting things into perspective.
The issue is complex but we cannot afford half the population to just spit the dummy and say it is all just too hard.Time to think outside the square,perhaps?

BC2 “Col Rouge - with respect, I would suggest that as someone who has apparently not had any first-hand experience dealing with major ("clinical") depression, you do not have all the facts required to offer an informed opinion on the subject.”

Oh really? In what part of my post was I required to declare what experience I have in dealing with “clinical” depression. I should have mentioned my ex-wife, who was hospitalised for same before I met her? In future, ask before you make presumptions about my knowledge or life experiences. Simply making presumptions leaves you looking pompous and stupid.

Mahatmaduck “Apparently we need to add psychiatry to Col Rouge's list of areas of expertise”

We do not need degrees in something to allow us to express an opinion on it.

For your sarcasm (the lowest form of wit but the highest you could aspire to), a dearest Margaret quotation

“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”

You have as little skill in wounding as you do in making reasoned and valueadding contribution to debate.
As for "caring" you throw the word around without defining what you mean. Thats a cheap emotional trick.

Arjay “We do tend to look for quick fixes.”

Agree and in searching for the “quick-fixes” come the snake oil salesmen with their cure-alls.

The difference between someone with the physical symptoms of depression and those without is sometimes simple. Those without have learnt

The world does not care and owes us nothing. If someone wants to “fix” their problems, start by looking into oneself and don’t look to the universe for a sign or mystical inspiration.

A couple of years ago I used a counsellor for some emotional issues I was faced with. The skill of that counsellor was, she relied on prompting me with questions for which I had to find the solution from within me. That was some of the best money I ever spent.

Col, anyone who has paid even cursory attention to your rantings in various forums over recent years would agree that for you to call anyone else "pompous and stupid" is indeed an extreme case of the pot calling the kettle black.

It seems to me that you're being a tad evasive - which I have seen in your posts many times before, when you can't adequately defend your position.

So your ex-wife was hospitalised for depression eh? But this was before you met her? Were you actually living with her at any time when she was suffering from symptoms? Did you witness for yourself what she was going through? Did you ask her what it felt like, and truly understand what she told you? If you did, but learnt nothing and chose to persist in making such foolish comments about depression, your pomposity and stupidity has reached new levels.

Fair enough, you had some counselling and learnt some things about yourself. Apparently this makes you an expert on cognitive behavioural therapy.

But how much do you acutally know about the biological and neurological causes for, and symptoms of, major depression ? No, we do not need degrees in something to express an opinion about something - but we do need some facts on which to base that opinion.

Come on Col - just this once, instead of being evasive, why don't you tell us what you know about synapses, neurotransmitters and serotonin reuptake inhibitors? Then tell us how this knowledge supports the opinions you have proferred.

Otherwise, shut up.

Thanks BC2 - I couldn't have put it better myself.

BC2 “Otherwise, shut up. “

Sorry cannot oblige – the last time I looked this was a public forum inviting individuals to post.

Take your whining, snivelling and trivial complaints to the site administrator – he is their to either placate you or (more likely) ignore you.

As for me, I will continue to post what, when and where I like, regardless of your dictatorial demands to "shut up".

I will not be deterred by spiteful attacks from the likes of you or (based on the post immediately below yours), mahatmaduck or any other dictatorial scumbag who thinks that their own view is sacrosanct and us “ordinary folk” should shut up and defer to their omnipotent and pompous view.

As for depression – Like a lot of people, I have suffered from it , I guess mildly (past tense). Some other people around me still do. One of my close friends is diagnosed and in-treatment clinical “manic depressive”. His partner and I often discuss the impact of his “problems” on her as well as him and their relationship. Another is emotinally "crippled" by a clinical regime of medication and psychiatric visits.

Basically, I doubt whether there is a single person over the age of say, 25, who does not know someone who is depressed to some degree.

Hence, the idea of needing to “face up to ones own limits and reality” is not an uncommon view, regardless of the “chemistry” involved in brain activity.

Now for “cognitive behavioural therapy” maybe I should direct you to

http://www.rational.org.nz/prof/docs/Brief%20Intro%20to%20REBT.pdf

I empathise with the idea that it integrates with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

Point of note – never, ever, assume that simply because I do not “flaunt” knowledge of something, I know nothing about it.

Simply put, in future, I suggest you take your petty views and asinine opinions of me and just “stick it up where the sun will never shine upon it”

Well, well, well Col. Hit a nerve, did we ?

"Stick it up where the sun will never shine upon it" ? Such a compelling argument, and so eloquently put. Exactly what I suspected would lie under the surface.

The age-old tactic of the poor debater. If you're put under pressure and can't justify your position, resort to insults.

But I must say it takes less than I thought for you to show your true colours when someone actually holds you to account for the ridulous comments you come out with in these forums.

And as I suspected, you have not produced one iota of evidence to support an argument that a person suffering from depression can recover simply by changing his attitude, 'regardless of the “chemistry” involved in brain activity' (to take a direct quote from your last post).

That is what you are arguing, isn't it ? If it isn't, please enlighten us.

As for that article which you so helpfully refer us to - what's your point ? That counselling can be effective in treating depression ? Of course it can be - no well-informed person would argue otherwise.

But where are the facts to support your argument in terms of the biological causes of depression ? Point me to some credible scientific research which says that depression can always be overcome simply by way of attitudinal change, "regardless of the chemistry involved in brain activity".

Come on Col, instead of flinging personal insults and bleating about your right to state your views, why don't you actually support those views with some facts - as opposed to the emotive, simplistic claptrap that you've presented so far.

Or have you already given it your best shot ?

Great Forum. Having had the experience of living close to a female and her son, both with personality disorders, which were virtually impossible to recognise until they violently exploded out of all perspective, damaging only themselves, I feel as a Mental Health expert, Mr Deane makes a great Barrister. He is, in fact exhibiting personality disorder by the act of blaming the victim.

BC2 “Such a compelling argument, and so eloquently put. Exactly what I suspected would lie under the surface”

A comment such as your “Otherwise, shut up.”

Merits nothing more compelling.

As for “Point me to some credible scientific research which says that depression can always be overcome simply by way of attitudinal change, "regardless of the chemistry involved in brain activity".

Your statement presumes depression is caused solely by brain chemistry and has nothing to do with social or environment issues.

Whilst some depression may be a function of "brain chemistry", many people, for whom this does not apply, still think they cannot change their entire life by adjusting their personal attitude are doomed to one of frustration and depression.

For me – “its all attitude” and the result is I am one "happy chappy".

Col, I must say I'm quite astounded. I would never have expected you to concede a point.

Your admission that "some depression is a function of brain chemistry" (and therefore is not just a result of "having the wrong attitude") was all that I was seeking.

As far as it being "all attitude" in your case - I'm glad that you've had success with the approach you've taken, and that you're a "happy chappy". Good for you !!

BC2 "Col, I must say I'm quite astounded. I would never have expected you to concede a point."

No point to concede - I never claimed "chemical imbalance" was not the source of some depression.
I merely suggested "social", "environmental" and "attitudinal" factors were sources but never proclaimed them to be exclusive.

As for “attitude”, yours, in demanding that, because my points of opinion differ from yours, that I should “Otherwise, shut up.” is contemptible and in need of some serious development.

No doubt victimhood is “big business” in our society. It is readily acknowledged and rewarded, but feeding it does not absolve it. I believe current levels of responsibility shifting are unsustainable. True victims have way too much competition for our attention.

I thought it was too good to be true Col. You are incapable of conceding a point after all.

If you read back over the posts carefully, I think you'll find that you were indeed suggesting that "it's all about attitude". Which of course would be consistent with your conservative socio-political views (self-determination, every man for himself, etc, etc).

You only softened your position when you were put under pressure to actually provide evidence for your claim.

And if you read back over the posts, you'll also find that my concern was not that your "points of opinion differ from mine", but that you failed to back up your claims with facts.

I'm not saying that you don't have a right to wade into every discussion (as you do) and push your conservative views. I don't agree with most of what you say, but it makes for good debate.

However, I am saying that if you're going to make claims on substantive issues, it is incumbent upon you support such claims with factual evidence.

As for the nerve I hit by telling you to shut up, perhaps a bit of introspection wouldn't go astray ? Have you ever thought about re-examining some of the stances you take ? Have you ever thought about seriously and honestly looking at a contentious situation from another person's point of view ?

I thought not.

I agree with Alex - not saying that clinical depression doesn't exist but it is WAY over diagnosed...or SELF diagnosed by people too pitiful to get out of their own way, so they MUST have depression.
(note: have depression - like it's a disease you can catch rather than a convenient excuse for bad behavior)

Even if the depression IS real, the best cure is to get off your arse and just get on with it.

*tongue in cheek*

Drugs should be reserved for recreational use only!

BC2 God you are a bore –
“Have you ever thought about re-examining some of the stances you take ?”

Where do you get off with you continual criticism of me, in some vain defence of the deficiencies in your own attitude?

I could not care less about what you think of me or what you claim about the stances I may adopt.

I do care, however, when some boorish oaf suggests I “Otherwise shut up” simply because this is a lublic forum which invites contributions.

I can see you would support that other bombastic and arrogant oaf Latham, he and you have something in common, you both believe anyone who challenges you view should “Otherwise shut up”.

I “shut-up” for no one – never have, never will, not you, not some pseudo expert who thinks a “qualification” gives them the monopoly on expressing an opinion and not some self appointed rampaging ego demanding the right to represent my view because they think they might know more about me than I know about me.
So if all you can do is demand I “re-examine my stances”, I would humbly suggest you “shut up” yourself and find some more rewarding pursuit, because all you are doing is portraying what a shallow and boring life you must have.

Newsroo

“note: have depression - like it's a disease you can catch rather than a convenient excuse for bad behaviour

Even if the depression IS real, the best cure is to get off your arse and just get on with it.”

Newsroo – succinctly put, “having depressing” is to externalise it and, as you say, it becomes something which is contracted and can equally be “cured” like a headache, with a pill and no personal effort.

For the majority people with experiences of ”depressions” your suggestion is, in my view, appropriate - “get off your arse and just get on with it “. It works for me.

The forum discussion on this topic has been interesting although in the most part reactive to Deane's initial opinion. I sit on a Board for a small, community based youth service and would like to add my view to the discussion.This service , which amongst other things provides non clinical support , resources and services to young people at risk of or currently suffering from a mental illness 12 - 24yrs of age.This service addresses the mental health issues as a result of emotional , physical and psychological responses , drug induced , trauma induced and chemical imbalance in the young people 12 - 24yrs which it assists. It also advocates for people who need to access the appropriate services who are "not coping" or "refusing to cope" with issues they or someone else has made that are negatively affecting them , their family and the wider community as a result.
While I do not propose specialist knowledge I am intimately aware on both a personal and professional level of mental health issues [ we all have a mental health by the way ] and it is my view that there is no progress in oversimplifying this issue as suggested by some via the forum with a few of the comments or "attitudes" portrayed.
I think the point has been missed - the very fact that such robust discussion and debate on this topic has taken place supports the fact that we are more open on mental health issues.... that has got to be a good thing !
Without awareness and education on this topic, which will ultimately remove the stigma often attached to people suffering from a mental illness , we fail the people least able to represent themselves and the people who care for them.
At the end of the day it is a cry for help and shame on us if we have lost the compassion to answer that call from others who take the step to reach out.

Ok - I guess I sound a little heartless but what is a cry for help if not whining..? Especially (as seems to be so often the case with these so called 'depressed' people) if it is not accompanied by a willingness or even motivation to help yourself?

There's too much to lose by getting better!

I think it's a great thing that we are more open to talking about mental health - it's just that there seems to be little effort to actually understand behavior, just boost medication sales.

Opinion usually comes from individual experience and I guess I've seen too many people use their 'depression' as a reason to avoid work / put others down to make themselves feel good / behave badly / have an entitlement mentality (please pick one or more). Unfortunately, it works just fine for them most of the time.

It just seems like we're a world full of permissive (read:ineffectual) parents, and the 'depressed' (including ADHD etc) are the adult equivalent of bratty children you just want to shake.

Aw Col, are you feelings hurt ? Being told to shut up has obviously hit a very raw nerve - you can't seem to stop mentioning it.

I'm not sure what a "lublic forum" is, and I don't know what on earth Mark Latham has to do with anything - but given your emotive and irrational response, I'm guessing that you get told to shut up a lot in life.

Get over it.

That was a silly article. Every generation thinks they live in different and stressful times.

A couple bombs go off in a far away land and everyone's scared. Not feeling good about something, you are a victim... here, take this script and go buy a bottle of pills. There, that's better (until your tolerance means you gotta keep upping the dose and thus guaranteeing perpetual victimhood).

Hate to see how this generation would have coped with wars, atrocities, social distruction about 70 yrs ago. 1930s-40s Germany was very stressful. Created a lot of victims too. Stalin exterminated 20 million. Mao slaughtered 10s of millions. Those centralised socialist states did a great job of equality, a great job of raising peoples living standards, a great job of paying people fair wages, a great job of keeping the grocery store shelves stocked... all-in-all putting to shame the quasi capitalist/social welfare mix that dominates western industrial nations.

Naval gazing is truely a symptom of very high living standards. Hey... stop whinnig... my belly button has got more fluff in it than yours. What have you got to complain about.

Sheesh, this complaining is making me stressed. Oh, lm so annoyed at being made to feel stressed. lm a victim... waaaah, boooo hoooo, sob, sniff, waaah.

Yeah right... the more things change the more they stay the same.

trade 215
The forum itself is a form of therapy - we are in a a free society so we speak freely
You can go online , talk without ever being challenged as you remain anonymous and self diagnose while standing in judgement of others............ you have missed the point.

Viki,

well der fred.

How obvious. l too know how to yell into the void.

A few things l relish about this forum are... statements of the obvious, tendency to denigrate into ad hominen attacks when logical arguement escapes a person and (my favourite) how people will actually prove the contrary of their position if they spend enuff time argueing with themselves (l think your post is a good example of that).

We all do it and are great at pretending otherwise. Priceless.

Oh was there a point? Um, ah, golly, gee wiz, l fink dat l missed it. Guess l will just have to wait about in my simple mided oblivion and wait for a more observant mind to identify it and tell me wot it is.

Anyway, thanks for interpreting my post and telling me wot l am really doing and wot l really mean.