The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Economic growth: is it worth having? > Comments

Economic growth: is it worth having? : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 22/11/2012

Despite the Club of Rome we've never been better-off and better-fed than we are now.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All
The reason we are now number ten is largely down to the GFC, which forced many former wealthy countries down below us; rather than a mining boom, which shifts billions offshore annually, where is does us absolutely no good whatsoever!
And as always, I check facts, which verify, pre the GFC, we had slipped down the rankings from a high of three, to around number thirty, in the national pro rata wealth stakes.
Bigger air-conditioned houses, with barely enough room for the almost obligatory backyard pool, invariably equate to bigger mortgages, higher rates, larger insurance bills, higher energy usage, and vastly more personal or domestic debt, which just prior to the GFC, was apparently larger than our record foreign debt!
None of which equates to, or verifies increased wealth, just increased indebtedness and increased consumption, which by the way, did make a very few of us actually better off!
And indeed, as the housing bubble deflates, many will find the so-called equity, largely delusional, with many Mac'Mansions, worth considerably less than the mortgage loads they still carry!
Massively overvalued and over-leveraged assets are never ever increased wealth, merely massively increased indebtedness!
To reiterate, some of us were better off, but only if you count Billionaire bankers, insurance brokers, real estate resellers, unproductive tax practioners, share holding politicians, and franchise builders, like a now rapidly going backwards, Harvey Norman?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 23 November 2012 10:32:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Poirot

Point is that in terms of physical space we have no problems. The world population could fit into an even much smaller area if we built high rise and use the left over space for services etc. I'm not saying its the most desirable outcome but humans are not infesting the planet like rabbits, that is a complete myth. Nor are they polluting the planet to death. I don't have the same aversion to fossil fuels as yourself. And the maths adds up whether we are 'talking about humans' or not.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 23 November 2012 10:33:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Atman,

"The world population could fit into an even smaller area if we built high rise and use the left over space for services etc."

I realise the above is merely a (nightmarish) projection, but the reality is that humans - who have a penchant to view themselves as separate and "above" the verities of the natural world - have the capacity to manipulate environments far beyond wise action.

Driven as man often is, by profit and greed as well as necessity, a healthy environment is more often than not a secondary consideration.

"...in terms of physical space we have no problems."

As for the maths, every human has an impact beyond the physical space he takes up - he's not a static entity, and nor is his psychological outlook - or his appetites.

Check out "Small is Beautiful" by E.F. Schumacher...written around the same time-frame as the of subject of this article - shame more notice wasn't taken of his ideas.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 23 November 2012 11:03:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Poirot, what do you think about space exploration and possible human settlement of other planets?
Posted by cohenite, Friday, 23 November 2012 11:07:14 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Cumugeon, you are right, economic growth has literally lifted millions from endless, enduring, generational, soul and ambition destroying poverty.
More than that, it has ended the usual feast or famine nature of living from hand to mouth, that resulted in so much death and dying!
Which by the way, some green advocates would impose on all of us, if their real if largely unspoken agenda, were ever possible or actionable?
If anyone has proved you can have quite spectacular economic growth, all while quite literally depopulating, then surely it is a now, much wealthier, more prosperous and smaller China!
Economic growth, which has by the way, has literally lifted millions out of poverty!
This is a successful formula, which can surely work for all of us?
Yes we can, set about stabilising then lowering total population numbers, while still growing an endlessly sustainable economy!
All we need do is ensure, as first cab off the rank, that everyone everywhere has the benefit of an education and up skilling, as and when required, in a rapidly changing, work environment!
Just this much alone, will put ever increasing downward pressure on population growth, or put it in reverse!
After that, all we ever need do, is attack and remove poverty in all its forms and guises, wherever we find it.
Sometimes all that is required is a reliable well to ensure water surety, and a buffalo or a cow, to pull a plough and provide milk; and or, a few solar cells to power pumps, sewing machines, or a few lights that allow education opportunities, where none are now possible.
We have an aid budget, let's simply redirect and make much better use of it!
The ultimate benefit for nations like ours, will be increased trade opportunities etc, like those that occurred and accrued for/to us, as China grew and lifted millions out of poverty!
And yes, we do need to ensure that essential Environmental lessons, learned in China, are applied, wherever possible, to all future economic growth!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 23 November 2012 11:18:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Poirot,

Without profit there are no jobs. Even Govt employees have a job because of profit made somewhere in the community. There would be no medical advances nor internet or many other benefits you take for granted.

Humans are 'above' the natural world but not independent of it. That is of course unless you see yourself as equivalent to a worm or fish which you are most welcome to do.

You say people are motivated by greed and profit but greed and profit are not related. Buyers and sellers can be equally greedy.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 23 November 2012 12:49:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy