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The Forum > Article Comments > No amount of belief can create a fact > Comments

No amount of belief can create a fact : Comments

By Andre Zonn, published 14/11/2012

Sadly, preoccupation with egalitarianism in Australian society seduces us from looking at underlying processes and structures.

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...While I agree with the author that “closing the gap” by addressing structural inequality is politically soothing to the welfare industry; reality is another matter. I believe Governments, (at the least the current Labor Government), inadvertently hit the “health inequality” nail fair smack on the head by attacking cigarette companies with new and “Progressive” laws making life for the corporate evil-doers difficult.

...The momentum from that “gem of a win” must now be harnessed for a similar attack on the alcohol industry. This is a silent “killer” industry that is wreaking havoc on the health and wellbeing of our nation at all levels, from top to bottom: In my view, ten times more socially destructive than cigarette smoking!

Andrew Wilkie takes the “cake” for his brave and tireless attack on this industry in recent times. He stands on the same podium as Bob Katter in his fearless dedication to issues of National importance “outside the crowd” of cowardly party politics, presided over by a “syco” political elite.

...The Aboriginal question on health is also not correctly addressed in this shallow article. The top of the list of health issues in Aboriginal communities is “alcohol abuse”. Second is cigarette smoking, and the third is an addiction to “Coca Cola”. Poor housing is related to the first health issue of Alcohol; compounded by location issues of living in isolation. A distant runner is racism.

...This author needs to get his feet “on the ground” if he wishes to be socially useful!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:53:34 AM
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I'm no statistician, but I do know a few basics.

The author's method of calculating excess mortality appears to be an attempt to grab the bottom 10% of a random distribution curve and push it to the very top. This effectively pre-supposes that intervention can re-shape the standard bell distribution, resulting in a truncated lower limb.

Why not look at means and standard deviations? Isn't the goal to reduce the SD, so that everybody is closer to the upper end of outcomes? This implies reducing those factors which bring about the wide range in outcomes - ensuring that services are up to standard everywhere and not just in teaching hospitals in capital cities, for example.

So, what is the mean and SD of health statistics for populations spread across the country geographically? By racial identification? By membership of fishing clubs? Of those who remain active in their declining years, eg via Rotary Club membership, or the Men's Shed movement, or who attend their local gym or pool regularly? Or those who do not?

I had breakfast this morning with a man 85+ years old, who has recently received 10 (Yes, ten!) swimming medals in a Masters' sporting competition. And yes, for those who care, he does have an occasional tipple.

Last weekend, at the 100th birthday party of another friend, I noticed that he still drinks a little and enjoys a yarn.

This conversation isn't all or only about booze.
Posted by JohnBennetts, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 12:27:31 PM
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I think the take away message of this article is about how out of step our egalitarian (nationalistic) views are with the actually realities of the lives of 'ordinary Australians' when discussing equality and especially the root cause of entrenched poverty.

How often do comfortable and relaxed Australian swallow the hook line and sinker agenda pumped out with the catch cries of 'welfare cheats' or welfare dependency? Everytime I'd say.

From my perspective the author sets out to highlight that there is a marked tendency in Australian society for people in fortunate circumstances to “blame” people in less fortunate circumstances for
their plight.

Rather than focus on broader social factors—factors that are often beyond the immediate control of individuals—that might contribute to ones’ situation, (many from both sides of the political divide now) seek to explain it by referring to some sort of character failing.

The poor, for example, are often thought of as defective personalities or deficient moral types.

• They are people who do not share “our” values; they are not “like” us.

• Their impoverishment is their own fault. They are “deserving” of their situation and thus “undeserving” of our society’s aid. “If only they worked harder. . . .”

Moreover the author of this article is rightly suggesting that preventative measures will cost us less in the longer term. But these approaches are not conducive to the political strategies and ambitions of politicians who are using the blame game in their re election campaigns
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 4:26:39 PM
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No amount of belief can create a fact. Yes but it does successfully deny a lot of fact.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 November 2012 6:08:11 PM
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Any fair minded person has to wonder if the poor circumstances of aboriginals is despite 50 years of very expensive efforts by social workers, or because of that 50 years of social workers mucking with things they are not equipped to deal with.

Aboriginals would be much better off if we could wind back the clock, & get these do gooders the hell out of their lives.

Andre mate, I have an aging neighbour just down the road, drinking himself into an earlier grave. If you want to do good, get out of that class room, they will just be pushing the techniques that have proven to fail, & go hold his hand. You just may have done something of some use if you do
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 16 November 2012 11:05:00 AM
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