Ludwig,

You do realise you shouting in the desert here, don't you.

I was going to jump aboard and have a bit of a scrap with the deni....oops! skeptics, but cohenite spoiled the moment by mentioning Lord Monckton - and I've only just stopped laughing.

Oh well, best of luck anyway.

: )

There is not just denial, i suspect it comes with a religious component as well.

Ludwig,
I am a sceptic and when there is proof of AGW I expect Tim will let us all know. In the meantime I am aware that there are somethings that humans have no influence over, Like tides, earthquakes and others. Mother nature will keep on and I think we are placeing too much importance on Our own place in the overall scheme of things, to think we can change the worlds climate.

The thing that irritates me most about the AGW advocates is that at all the talkfests they hold about the matter, they refuse to even consider the influence of increasing population on the use of fossil fuels and the increase in CO2. If they consider humans are responsible then lowering the number of humans has to be the responce.

So much idiocy from the AGW acolytes.

csteele reinvents reality again by saying I suck at the science when he, and bonmot, indeed the lot of you are MIA; I gave a link to an analysis of the THS in the thread; none of the gang have any replies, just, as Lord Monckton says, the usual argument ad verecundiam, ad hominem, ad nauseum, to which the standard hubris and condescension comes thick and fast. And never has arrogance been underpinned by so little substance as when it gushes out from the Alarmists.

And the resident weirdo says:

"There is not just denial, i suspect it comes with a religious component as well."

You people have no capacity for self-criticism or irony do you; contrary to what 579 says it is AGW believers who are religious; it's official:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dismissed-employee-agrees-settlement-in-green-case-1949594.html

About the Judgement:

"Last year, a judge, in a landmark decision, ruled that his belief in climate change was legally akin to a religious belief and should be protected from discrimination".

So, AGW alarmists do not argue from a real world perspective but a religious reality; that explains the implacable and steadfastly devoted clinging to the belief in AGW, and why there is this attempt to set up a cloister between the saved believers in AGW and the disbelieving heretics.

The religion of latter day....what? Coolists, that's the opposite of hot/hell but it's been done; of course Flannery is a believer in gaia, so Gais: The religion of latter day Gias!

csteele

In fact, you are right. Hydro is a renewable, but that was not the point. The point was that its a renewable that the Chinese have been building up of their own violition,long before the Western obsession with saving emissions. the Chinese are, in fact, obsessed with building dams. There is nothing wrong with that (well, there wouldn't be if building dams in China was not part of a racket - but that's another story)but the Climate commission report presented the figure, without any explanation or breakdown, as if it was a part of a Chinese drive towards renewables. In fact its just a byproduct of the chinese system and geography.

Chinese investment in PV and solar equipment is mostly to supply the western obsession with emissions, not for domestic use. Any investment in domestic systems is for show.

As you can see the point about the Climate commission report being straight propaganda stands. Its a government body and should not waste public money and resources producing reports that simply present the activist case for controlling emissions.

Ludwig, the big picture is that AGW is the greatest attempted fraud in human history.

There is no demonstrable effect of human emissions on climate. If you know of any such science, demonstrating any measurable effect, you are again invited to let us have the reference.

Otherwise, your stance has no basis. AGW has been put forward as a theory, and has no quantifiable basis. Any effect of human emissions is trivial, and not measurable.

How have you managed to keep yourself on the dark over the matter, Ludwig?

Why do you think that the word of the IPCC, run by a non scientist, and with a proven track record of dishonesty, should be taken over the assertion of 31,000 scientists in a petition that no action should be taken until a scientific basis is established?

The AGW scam is dead, and will eventually lie down. The baseless faith of people like you, Ludwig, give the corpse lifelike twitches.

“Some of the preeminent scientists involved in promoting global-warming alarmism have been disgraced and discredited, after being caught in flagrante in unethical and illegal activities. Even before the 2009 "Climategate" e-mail scandal, many leading scientists who had earlier been true believers in man-made global warming (anthropogenic global warming, or AGW) had begun jumping ship”

This is an extract from an excellent summary of AGW. Read the article at:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/7mvumju