…This intriguing article throws much missing honesty into the debate on homosexual marriage. It debunks any notion that the concept of homosexual marriage is universally agreed amongst the group.

… Rob Cover is correct to imply that the debate for and against homosexual marriage, has a long road ahead before any definitive conclusions can be drawn on the overall benefits of homosexual marriage to society, and the homosexual community itself.

Thank you for your response - interesting perspective.

I certainly agree with your opinion that marriage equality will not be a "magic bullet" to reduce rates of LGBTI youth suicide on its own - it is a far more complex issue.

I believe that to reduce rates of suicide in LGBTI youth, the problem needs to be tackled at various levels..
1)Individual level - recognising the problem,direct support and treatment for the youth individually, this is done by family, friends, GP, psychologist, psychiatrist, school counsellor, social worker, etc

2)Local level - local resources such as GP - having training in Youth Friendly Doctor and LGBTI issues, Headspace, Psychologists, Child/Adolescent Mental Health Services, School counsellors, specific programs such as Gay/Straight Alliance and awareness and tolerance and acceptance programs in schools/communities

3)Broader community level - state/federal funding for programs, staff etc. Wider community campaigns for acceptance of LGBTI people and awareness of issues, awareness of suicide and prevention. And of course, removal of legalised discrimination such as in the Marriage Act goes into this category.

Overall, I believe that legalising same sex marriage will do far more good than any possible harm and that the Federal government should do this as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it won't be a magic bullet - but it will help - and we need to work on all the other factors as well to reduce the rates of suicide in LGTBI youth.

No! Marriage equality, though long overdue, is hardly a response to L/G youth suicide.
That needs a different approach starting with removing Chaplains from schools, with their hateful misguided medieval message, that gender bias is an inherent evil, we might or do consciously choose?
A set in stone "mindset," that flies in the face of all the available evidence!
People, particularly the religious right, need to stop trying to realign sexuality via religious/cult like indoctrination; or quite blatant religious brainwashing; and or, unwavering denial.
[Cults are usually defined by their often extreme and entirely inflexible views; and, are usually led by a leader who cannot err?]
We need to stop recalcitrant families from denying/refuting the plain as the nose on your face, truth; and or, blaming the often estranged victim.
Who is then isolated and literally punished for the balance of their days, for daring to be born different.
And no, it's not genetic or inheritable.
It's not the G/L youth who are queer, but the par for the course mindless response, and equally mindless discrimination!
Rhrosty.

Suicide has always appeared to me to be a rather elegant way nature has developed to correct some of it's more obvious mistakes.

DAV:

...You attempt to coalesce argument from this article, into one of pro-homosexual marriage fail.

Rhosty:

...We, (the normal community), don’t want our children to be “softened up” as part of a school curriculum promoting the wayward lifestyle of homosexuals. God and his moral path and social traditions are a perfect example for our children thank you!

I agree with Dr Villis – the connection between suicide and marriage is probably quite tenuous, though not non-existent. There are lots of other, better, reasons to support marriage equality.

Hasbeen
That’s a particularly nasty response

>>Suicide has always appeared to me to be a rather elegant way nature has developed to correct some of it's more obvious mistakes.<<

What, like Ludwig Boltzmann? Brilliant physicists don't strike me as an obvious mistake of nature.

Cheers,

Tony

The LGBTIQ rates of suicide, violent death, incarceration, mental illness, drug use, smoking, alchohol use and other risky behaviours are many times higher across the age spectrum than in the general population.
Being in a stable relationship helps curb the negative effects of being homosexual, being in an unstable one would tend to make things worse, all the information I've seen indicates that rates of dysfunction and partner abuse are about the same in same sex and opposite sex relationships.
I think like a lot of heterosexual people I've come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a physical "condition', if you will, so it's therefore natural in the sense that autism is natural but like autism it's not something we'd wish upon anyone, yet we do our best to make sure such people have equal opportunity insofar as they can make use of the help offered.

Rob I see your essay as also "Tad Distastful", using the LGBTI community as appearing to be lacking in awareness of youth suicide.
Self harm and suicide is not a new phenomenon or recent occurrence in the GLBTI community, by your age you would not have experienced the days, when GLBTI people where seen in law as criminals.
Where self harm, Depression, isolation and suicide was prevalent, and if ones sexuality became known, bullying was commonplace and often abandonment by ones family and "straight" friends.
You can read the anti gay responses to your essay here, and it is those sort of comments that seriously harm gay youths, who are coming to terms with their sexuality.
There are things happening to support young GLBTI people in Australia, and social study education should be at the fore. Though you and your partner and your mates find marriage "Tad Distasteful",to those same sex couples who have enjoyed many happy years together, marriage is a crowning option for them, and should be applauded.

Hasbeen, that comment is a new low, even for you. Shame on you.

I very much agree with the author of this article in that same-sex marriage will not necessarily decrease gay youth suicide numbers.

The only way these terrible tragedies can be averted is by encouraging more acceptance of diversity in our society, and stamping out old-fashioned anti-homosexuality bigotry.

I suspect that a lot more young boys and girls commit suicide after their boyfriend/girlfriends have cheated on them. That is certianly the case with deaths in custody. The less morals in our scoiety, the more suicide. An inconvenient truth.

Suseonline,
Maybe encouraging Gay marriage and monogamy could be part of an overall harm minimisation strategy for homosexuals, the state runs special harm reduction programs for other groups such as Aboriginals, IV drug users and prostitutes so protecting LGBTIQ people from their own poor impulse control might be the way to go.
Then again, Gay marriage is a "Can't beat 'em, join 'em" admission of defeat by the Gay lobby, if Gays are converting to the current Orthodoxy they need to get used to people preaching to them, we straight married folk get told what to do and how to think 24/7.

Hasbeen's comment re suicide I will not repeat hoping it will be removed.

It amounts to ridicule of people who are or have been suicidal, telling them that they would be doing society a favour if they suicide. Even people who come to the site feeling relatively well could become distressed from this comment perhaps to the point of self-harm - And frankly, the article wasn't exactly extending great hope but a lot hard work to improve suicide rates for the marginalised. For people already unwell, it is suicide inducing.

It is also way off the standard of media policies on the reporting and portrayal of suicide such as Mindframe and SANE Australia. I am also an advocate of SANE's StigmaWatch program that aims to reduce and prevent the incidence of this type of gross stigma.

We need suicide to be talked about but everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity and even more so if they unwell. This is the basics of humanity.

Diver Dan, you say to the Doc:

"You attempt to coalesce argument from this article, into one of pro-homosexual marriage fail."

It is you actually, who appears to have suffered a rather embarrassing comprehension fail.

The article is unashamedly in favor of homosexual marriage. It simply says that while homosexual marriage will help with the issue of gay teen suicide, it will not solve all the entire problem.

The part where it says: "Ultimately, same-sex marriage is absolutely fine and very much should be legislated to accommodate those who desire it."

Is pretty damn easy to comprehend.

Zing. Try actually reading the article next time, particularly when you're going to accuse others of a comprehension fail.

Congratulations though, that's the first blatant "comprehension fail accusation fail" I've ever seen.

For my two cents:

It's a damn good piece. Sums up the issue pretty well, without preaching. As for Hasbeen, you really ought to consider how a suicidal teenager who may well have a bright future but is temporarily facing dark times, might respond to your comment, then consider what kind of a person you want to be.

Hasbeen,

It's notable that you spend an inordinate amount of time blowing your own trumpet on this forum. I always wondered why you felt the need to do that so often.

Judging by the new level of odium and offensiveness in your post above (a personal best?), I now understand why.

If that's the idea of common decency you've carried with you through life, I suggest you picked the wrong username...

"Never Was" seems much more appropriate.

"Never Was" seems much more appropriate....lol....that was golden:)

Planet

TR then L:

...Only a “Mad Hatter” would impute any legitimacy or logical reasoning into the concept of homosexual marriage! Homosexuality is a disease which needs eradicating, for the benefit of normal society!

...The article specifies that the concept of homosexual marriage is being driven by a collection of old fags at the top-end of society, (adults). I agree with that (article) conclusion, when evidence abounds at every turn, of high profile homosexuals pushing this agenda, which confirms to me the theory!

Diver Dan I do not think your fairy man in the sky, would be happy with your nasty comment Mate!!

Kipp:

...Its not the fairy-man in the sky that is the danger to society Kipp. The danger is the forceful change to society the rise of homosexuality has become as a religious replicator. An ideology to its proponents!

...Homosexuality has become the new religion of the west: Its front-line enemy is undoubtedly Christianity, and any other concept of religion which attempts to maintain social stability by tradition.

...Homosexuals should be wary they do not get more latitudes to constraint than they ask for, as they force by unacceptable manipulation, the replacement of historic political and social structures!

....It is a bit trite to use queer youth suicide as a justification for a marriage arrangement that can only be enjoyed by adults...quite a true statement, however the damage comes for the mind bending religious sects who claim anyone engaging in such acts should be made feel dirty, hence which forms depression and self worthlessness.

Diver Dan...A bible quote for you..." and Jesus took the young boy into his bed, and showed him the ways of the lord"

Try not to be a hypocrite:)

Planet

After all coming to head apart, I think all should be fair in understanding nature and GODS World whether we or you understand it or not..Sorry Dan,but you have your right to your OPINION which this site is based opon, so love all things, not just yours and your own"....So all come to Hervey Bay whale festival and support Queensland towns so help me GOD. I'll be there, and if you love your planet, you will be there too.

Off topic, I know:)....But think about this....The world as one, so help us all....and if gay people frighten you, its in your head and thats where it stays.

Planet/just a DAD.

@ Runner

Only a morally corrupt person would ignore and pretend that there is no GLBT suicide problem. The mentality of some people reminds me of the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who said there was no homosexuals in Iran. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hATGOzv6YSmgeMY1zdYbdpyrG2cw

jason84,...very nice work.

Planet

jason84,

nice to know you believe in absolutes. That certainly is a surprise.

...Iranians appear to have their priorities in order then! (reference to the link...above post), Thanks for the encouragement! …

DD, you call yourself a "Christian", I very much doubt that, as your postings indicate you are an insecure person using the internet to make up for your own lack of self confidence and self being; because you are invisible.

Thanks Kipp.......

@ Diver Dan

Yes Iran certainly has its priorities in order when they hang gay men, and jail women for protesting. You stated you find Iran encouraging, so when are you moving there? http://gawker.com/5837835/iran-hangs-three-men-for-having-gay-sex

Also anybody who believes that GLBT suicide is not a big issue in Australia should check out this website: http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/news/austra.htm

Jason84:

...Yep…read your link. My argument has been consistently aimed at opposition to homosexual marriage. One cannot argue against the existence of homosexuals in our society, but the sad reality is, including homosexual marriage into the main-stream of social expectation, will not benefit the majority heterosexual community: In fact, homosexual marriage debases the whole institution of marriage as it stands.

...Homosexuals simply need to acknowledge to themselves the existence of their abnormality, and accept a reality that their homosexuality gender preferences are not generally acceptable in the broader community. Figures which appear in polls to support homosexual marriage, are in fact a reflection of heterosexual desire not to appear to be discriminating against the minority of homosexuals.

...From a social perspective, it is further evidence of the success of a relentless ant-discrimination campaign, waged against the better interests of Australians, (born from Multiculturalism), which was forced onto Australians as the official “line”, to discredit the White Australian policy of the late sixties: Homosexual activists jumped onto this bandwagon for selfish interests.

...One anti-social high profile outcome from this period, was legalising the “Gay and Lesbian Mardi-Gras” in Sydney, (a ruction with social and moral negatives, needing a reversal urgently)!

...There are many other groups of Australians with high rates of suicide: Farmers and Doctors and Dentists spring to mind. Marriage has been of no obvious assistance to these groups in lowering suicide rates; and we can contend from that, that marriage of Homosexuals will not benefit the reduction of suicide in the homosexual group either.

@ Diver Dan

Well I could argue that your being selfish by denying gay people rights and freedom of expression. Now in regards to multiculturalism, Australia woke up and realized there was a huge problem with racism and thats why society moved to support multicultralism many years ago. Now the same thing is happening in regards to homosexuality, people are realizing Australia has a problem with homophobia which is why society is moving to support gay rights, and naturally that includes gay marriage. Society is moving to a more acceptance of minority groups, now it's totally up to you if you want to move with society on the acceptance of homosexuality or be left behind.

>>accept a reality that their homosexuality gender preferences are not generally acceptable in the broader community.<<

Which broader community is this? All the people I know don't give a toss about 'their homosexuality gender preferences'. Would this 'broader community' all congregate in the same building for an about an hour every Sunday morning by any chance?

Cheers,

Tony