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The Forum > Article Comments > Manne and ordinary people > Comments

Manne and ordinary people : Comments

By Anthony Cox, published 7/8/2012

A class “battle” has continued and intensified in the global warming debate

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Whatever you may make of his analysis it is interesting that Muller presented himself as a sceptic when he clearly was nothing of the kind. If the media applied the same criteria to him as they do to sceptics, then the deception would result in Muller being instantly labelled as a fringe lunatic unworthy of further notice.

You can also say that the basic work of collecting temperatures from ground stations has been so unbelievably sloppy, and the global warmists have been so resistant to any form of criticism, that we have gone this far without being absolutely certain what those records say.

The satellite collected data of temperatures (of the upper atmosphere) is far more reliable, albeit only back to 1975, and that also shows an increased between the mid-70s and the turn of the century. But there the global warmers are on the defensive trying to show some reason why we should accdept the satellite data, as it shows a much smaller increase. Hence the concern over the ground records. Somehow the satellite data has to be made to go away.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:17:54 AM
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"If this relates to the climatologically important homogenised temperature trends, this statement does not seem to fit with the results. If this statement only relates to the raw data, this is an important disclaimer that should not be missing from the abstract"

My understanding, from reading BOTH of Watts' papers, as opposed to blog interpretations of them, is that he has applied the new Leroy methodology to all 3 types of data, raw, TOB adjusted and fully homogenised.

I repeat, I think the TOB is a massive distraction because if it taints Watts' results it will inevitably have tainted the major temperature data; the new Leroy methodology is much better at dealing with UHIE which, as is explained in the article, is not dealt with by Muller because of manifest defects with his methodology.

In the interests of balance do you care to comment on that?
Posted by cohenite, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:22:47 AM
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'Where is Wayne Swan and the Boss when you need them?'

The Boss is in his counting house counting his millions, and Swan is in the kitchen sharpening his knives.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:28:16 AM
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Interesting title - it could be interpreted that Robert Manne is somehow either an enemy of ordinary people and/or somehow advocates policies that are against the interests of ordinary people.

It seems to me that Robert has always been a champion of the interests of ordinary people. His Jewish family somehow managed to survive of wartime Europe. He was quire rightly always a staunch opponent of both Soviet and Chinese communism.
After the "cold"-war ended he quite rightly became very concerned about the rise of the neo-"conservative" (psychotic)imperative and has thus been arguing against its malignancy ever since.

He was thus opposed to the illegal USA invasion of Iraq, which was championed and planned by the neo-psychotics.

It is interesting to note that many of the loudest so called skeptical voices re human-activity caused climate change are closely associated with the same neo-psychotic Global Spin machine (described in great detail by Sharon Beder) that championed the war against Iraq, and the various countries that were also SHOCKED and AWED into massive structural change, as described by Naomi Klein in The Shock Doctrine.

He was and still is essentially a proponent of social democracy.

Furthermore I would argue that all of the right-wing think tanks that promote the so called skeptical position re human induced climate change are the most powerful proponents and exponents of collective group-think on the planet.

There is not a truly independent voice/perspective to found in any of their publications, either on paper or online.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:32:10 AM
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Meanwhile the arch-villian or the high-priest of the climate-change proponents, namely James Hansen, has a new essay on the subject titled Here Comes the Sun. It is available on the Fairfax website.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:45:32 AM
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Daffy says this:

"it could be interpreted that Robert Manne is somehow either an enemy of ordinary people and/or somehow advocates policies that are against the interests of ordinary people."

Of course Manne is against the ordinary people; he supports Finkelstein; Manne shares Finkelstein's view that ordinary:

"citizens cannot evaluate independently the scientific arguments and rationally choose to believe the conclusions of a handful of scientific pseudo-sceptics rather than those of the tens of thousands of the scientists researching and publishing in this field,"

Daffy also says:

"He was and still is essentially a proponent of social democracy"

That is debatable if he supports Finkelstein and takes the attitude that "ordinary people" cannot evaluate the climate science; by saying that he is supporting the erection of an elite class of policy creaters who claim the right to override the democratic process.
Posted by cohenite, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:54:59 AM
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