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The Forum > Article Comments > Bicycles: sustainable transport needs city infrastructure > Comments

Bicycles: sustainable transport needs city infrastructure : Comments

By Alan Parker, published 30/5/2012

Urban planners and engineers need to get on their bikes.

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Many thanks for your efforts, Mr Parker.

I think the problem in Australia is prosperity; cars are taken for granted as a minimum standard, whereas in Europe there's much more take-up of public transport and alternatives like cycling. The even bigger problem is cars in Oz are status symbols and extensions of egos. This dissuades many people from taking up bicycles and the rationalisation of below-par infrastructure is thus maintained. But not only do cyclists have below standard and often dangerous accommodation on the roads in Australia, they also have to contend with egomaniacs in cars, regular abuse and dangerous practices.
I pin my hopes on the price of fuel forcing more people onto bikes and overcoming the petrol-head hegemony in this country.

I btw have an arthritic hip and the cyclings great for it!
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 7:55:36 AM
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Maintain your rage, Mr Parker, the country needs you!
When petrol prices inevitably rise (the IMF says they'll double in 10 years but I suspect it will be before that), people will be 'onya bike' in a flash though I suspect there will be competition from small electric cars. You didn't mention helmets though - it's not a requirement in Copenhagen or Amsterdam where I witnessed the bike culture fairly recently. I wonder how much the helmet law puts people off riding bikes in Australia, even if it might save their lives?
Posted by popnperish, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 9:16:09 AM
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Here's a nice complementary article in the Age today:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/drop-speeds-ditch-helmets-cycling-experts-say-20120529-1zg64.html
Posted by popnperish, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 9:28:49 AM
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Well said Squeers.

I was an avid cyclist for about 40 years. Haven’t ridden for a couple of years now. The main reason is that I’ve come to realise how hazardous it is …. and as a regular runner, I get my aerobic exercise in other ways.

Most people who want to commute by bicycle would want to move along at a reasonable speed. But if you are going to mix it with cars out on the open road, or with pedestrians on combined walkways/cycleways, then it becomes rather precarious.

With a well-planned cycleway network, it is much safer, but still a whole lot more risky to your own safety than driving in the city and suburban environment. You’d still have a mixture of fast cyclists, slow cyclists and pedestrians perhaps with children and dogs, all of which makes for a quite an interesting situation.

Many cyclists would rather ride out on the open road than on cycleways because they get an easier path of travel.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of cyclists that are just not safety-conscious. And doubly unfortunately, the law allows them to be like this.

For example, lots of cyclists have a ridiculously tiny white flashing or non-flashing light on the front with or without a red light on the back, which you can hardly see in amongst all manner of other lights in the city environment. They get a false sense of security and consequently ride much less carefully than they would if they had no lights.

In conjunction with an improved cycleway network, we would also need much better education, improvements in the law, improved regulation, and perhaps in some situations dedicated cycleways where pedestrians are not allowed.

Good article Alan.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 9:43:27 AM
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Bicycles are great and have their place in transport but there is a developing arrogance in some cyclists who are subtly encouraged to demand rather than negotiate their rights on the roads by politicians. This is dangerous because roads are not made suitable for bike lanes by simply stamping a bicycle on it. Conflict between cars and cyclists is encouraged by the characterisation of car drivers as selfish and polluting and wasteful while cyclists are depicted as fit healthy and 'Green'.

We need raised bike lanes or bike lanes with physical barriers like they have in Europe. We also need a program to encourage an understanding of the needs of both bike and car drivers not conflict.

Every place I've been with good bike lanes also have good public transport thus diminishing the need for cars. Simply declaring a bike lane on major road without preparation for drivers is poor planning.
Posted by Atman, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 9:58:17 AM
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I agree with your comments, Ludwig.
I'd add too that it must be admitted some cyclists incur the wrath of motorists in flaunting the road rules, though I think they're a small minority of adult riders, no greater, proportionally, than the number of bad motorists.
I'm in favour as much as possible of sharing the roads, rather than expensive dedicated pathways, and thus in dropping the speed limits in CBD's
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 10:21:36 AM
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'Many cyclists would rather ride out on the open road than on cycleways because they get an easier path of travel. '

This I have noticed.

On top of this, it defies logic that a lane of traffic, that could support thousands of cars an hour, is turned into a Clover Moore 'Cycleway', which services about 3 cyclists an hour.

I'm not exaggerating, I have seen this in Sydeney.

If ever there was a victory of ideology over common sense this is it.

If ever there was proof that people just will not cycle to work, no matter how cyclists are accommodated, this is it.

Build it and they will come? Hahahahahah! Buuullllssshhhiiiitttt!

Petrol would have to be $5 a litre, and even then people would not cycle.

Why? Because most workplaces don't have showers, it rains, and people will do almost anything to avoid physical activity.

Even then, who is going to wake up another half an hour before work to take into account the shower at the end of the commute.

IT IS JUST NOT PRACTICAL.

Time is worth more than money.

For me to cycle, I would have to be able to get to work faster, not cheaper.
Posted by Houellebecq, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 6:24:25 PM
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Oh, and I forgot to ask, how many hills are there in the Netherlands?
Posted by Houellebecq, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 6:27:37 PM
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Houellebecq,

I cycled to work nearly everyday for 12 years, about ten K's each way on Brisbane's infamous Ipswich Hyway, which was then composed of rough-hewn sections of ill-fitted concrete slabs and hardly any crumbling verge. I'll never forget one day attempting to change into the right hand lane, I hooked in directly behind a truck as it passed, only to find it was pulling a dog and I was in between!
Nevertheless I agree with you. I was driven by ideology and I loved those rare days I drove to work listening to the comedy half-hour on Radio National with a hot cup of coffee nestled between my legs.
These days I don't cycle so much--though I still walk a lot and drive as little as possible--but when I do I have a different mind-set. I'm not in any hurry--and I remind myself it only takes a few extra minutes on the bike, even taking it easy, and parking's free--and it doesn't matter if there's a head-wind; I just go down the gears or get off and walk if I have too (though I haven't yet) and treat the bike as a mode of transportation. I think to myself, if there weren't cars this would be the only way to travel, and I glide along the road marvelling at how much quicker and easier this is to walking!
It's true we're lazy slobs by nature, but I've always found the hardest part of a journey on a bike on a miserable day is getting on! Then you just accept your fate, and if you've got any joie de voir you laugh at the elements and pity your workmates whole role up surly and soft.
The biggest obstacles to greater take-up of bikes, for me, remain attitude and peer pressure.
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 6:59:19 PM
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*The even bigger problem is cars in Oz are status symbols and extensions of egos.*

Oh come on, Squeers. In cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen,
living in apartments is the norm. Our cities are much more spread
out, with houses still the norm.

So it makes perfect sense to use bicycles there and cars here.
Apart from inner cities yuppies of course, who can afford the
inner city real estate prices.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 7:37:05 PM
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You make a fair point Yabby, but I reckon ten K's is an average commute in the city, and it only takes about half an hour, taking it easy, on a bike. It's true few work places are set-up for it with end of journey facilities etc., but where there's a will..
Remember too that a lot of workers have to put in time at the gym to make up for being so sedentry; they could actually save time by cycling. All it takes is a new mind-set and a following.
Rural and semi-rural's another matter of course.
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 7:47:50 PM
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Keep on fighting the good fight! We need real bike ways. My poor Aussie children born to an ex Dutchie thought they were mightily hard done by that they were not driven to school and picked up from school by mummy darling. In fair weather and foul. (the Netherlands is not known for lovely sunny and balmy weather, so it didn't occur to me that a bit of rain was an impediment) Sometimes they thought they were hard done by until they realized that they actually had the skill and ability to make it to friend's houses and activities that many of their cosseted little friends didn't have without wheedling mummy darling to drive them here and there.
Oh, and by the way, my kids have no problems with obesity either. They got their physical exercise going to and coming from school. Later from Uni to their pad. No anxiety about plonking in front of the TV with a snack here. It is a cultural attitude. Not one of affluence, purely cultural.
Posted by yvonne, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 8:13:34 PM
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I rode for a while some years ago, some other changes made that impractical for a period then I tried again recently.

I have not raced to repeat the experience. I'm about 23km from work. About 5km of that does not have anywhere to stay out of the traffic and it's pretty obvious that a lot of people in ute's and small trucks find passing as close as possible to a cyclist to be a challenge that can't be passed up.

My life's to valuable to me for that. I can potentially get to work a bit faster on a bike than on public transport, add a bit of time having a shower at work then save some more on "exercise". I suspect overall I'd save a little time over public transport, quite a bit of money and a miserable day on a bike is still more pleasant than the crush of a QR peak hour train (or the out of hours feral's) .Right now I have access to a car park and driving takes about half the time the train takes.

So for now I don't ride, build a safe bike way and I would ride regularly and maybe most days when my access to free parking disappears. For now the risks of mixing it with idiots who think it's fun to buzz push bikes with their little truck is just not worth it.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 8:47:54 PM
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*I was driven by ideology *

Well that kind of explains it all, Squeers. Get your thrills
whichever way you want, it will suit some people, not others.
Luckily we each have a choice about these matters and so it should
be.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 9:06:44 PM
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I use a barber in Beenleigh, a lower priced Brisbane suburb, on the southern outskirts of the city.

She has a one person shop, & lives in her apartment over the shop. There is a school a couple of hundred meters down the road.

The road is wide, & until recently there were 6 angled parking spots in front of her shop, & the premises beside it.

That was until about a year ago, when some idiot decided there should be a cycle lane down either side of the road, including past her shop.

Now I have to park some distance from the shop, & there is a lot of illegal parking now in the area, with many parking spots gone.

I mentioned she lived over her shop, so has continual observation of this fool lane. In about a year the total cyclists she has seen use the lane is now a total of just 3.

When I recently had to park as far away as the school I noticed the bike rack in the parking area. It had 6 bikes in it, & 24 empty spaces.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 10:18:54 PM
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To those on this list who made positive comments . In 1996 I wrote a paper for an International bicycle planning conference in Perth that should be of interest.

http://alanparker-pest.org/Publications%201990%27s_files/BicycleFriendly.pdf

Alan Parker (1996) Bicycle friendly roads are safer for all road users. That has several graphs setting out a 17 nation record of the decline in bicycle deaths from 1970 to 1994. These where 14 Western European countries, Japan the US and Australia. Also the decline in all road deaths for 100,000 population from 1945 to 1992 in 8 countries . And the total number of road deaths in countries from 1970 to 1995 going down.

Most interesting of all was the increase in road deaths per 100,000 population of the six Eastern Europe countries controlled by the Soviet Union from 1970 to 1995 which show that cyclists where driven off the roads and that total road deaths increased in the same period.To those who made comments with negative attitudes you need to see the death rates per 100,000 population of all roads users. Compare Eastern Europe with Western Europe in the table below with and see the difference , assume that the 3 Eastern had an average death of 12 that if applied to Australia would double
the Number of actual road deaths.

Road Death Rates per 100,000 population
Country…………. 1995……...2010
....................................................
Sweden…………..7………..…3.4
UK ………………..7…………..3.0
Netherlands ……..8…………..3.7
Japan……………..9…………..4.3
Australia………...12…………..6.2
Germany………..13…………..4.7
USA……………...17……….. 10.5
Czechoslovakia.. 18…………10.4
Hungary………….20………...11.7
Poland………….. 23………...13.8

If Australia is to learrn from world best practice its clear that smartest people
Are the Western Europeans.
Posted by PEST, Thursday, 31 May 2012 12:59:19 PM
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PEST you people either kid yourselves, or you are as dishonest as our greenies, & warmists. You'll grab any statistic that either favours your point of view, or you can twist until it looks like it favours your point of view.

You laying claim to the reduction in road deaths is about as cynical as it is possible to get.

Have you not noticed the billions invested by governments, car maskers, & us public in making cars so much safer, that you would need a padded room to be any more protected.

Crumple zones, air bags, & structural advances is what has improved safety, not bl00dy bicycles, or the damn fool bike lanes that have been so often stolen from roads we paid for with our fuel taxes.

The most sensible move for road safety would be to ban the things, from all public spaces.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 31 May 2012 5:45:58 PM
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Hasbeen,

"The most sensible move for road safety would be to ban the things, from all public spaces."

Funnily enough, I read your last sentence first - and I thought for a brief second that your were referring to cars.

They are all very nice, of course, convenient and give us a capsule of security while we're travelling through space. This is the modern world after all....but too much traffic actually freaks me out. I don't drive these days, and either walk or rely on public transport for the most part.

I sometimes dream of an environment where there are no cars : )
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 31 May 2012 6:50:53 PM
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Poirot I am glad you are healthy enough for that lifestyle. I loved it 20 years ago, when I could carry a couple of jerry cans of fuel 500 meters down to the river pump, & bring the empty ones back up. Today I can't walk even half way to the damn thing. Getting into the ute to drive down can be hard some days.

I don't think you'd survive around here I'm afraid with out driving. We do have a post office convenience store with a couple of fuel pumps, & a produce store, about 4Km away, but you would starve if you could only shop there.

The nearest shopping is about 25Km. away, & there is no public transport, other than the school bus, which can not carry any other than school kids. Although it is theoretically possible to do your shopping in one of the choice of 3 towns, by horse & sulky, I doubt you would survive long with todays traffic.

I still really enjoy my cars. I have 3 sports cars, unfortunately none quite as old as me, but one is getting on that way, & the other 2 are not babies. Maintaining them is my last hobby, & it will become a wrench when I can no longer do it myself.

I can't imagine how bad life would/will be when I can no longer drive.

As an ex horseman, I should like the idea of a return to the days of horse & cart, but having lived as a kid with milking the house cow, & killing our own meat, & sharing it, as there were no freezers, I really don't want to go back there.

So sorry, I'll ban those bl00dy bikes, not the cars.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 1 June 2012 12:24:00 AM
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Hasbeen,

I appreciate your situation...and I can also appreciate your love of your cars.

I realise that this is time in which I exist - in a developed society that is based around the automobile. I do think that even small towns would have been able to cater for communities in the old days because much of the produce would have been grown and produced locally. I can even remember when as a child that most suburbs in cities had local shopping precincts where most things could be bought by walking to the shops. Our communities are now much more centralised and require a car to get you to them. We have constructed our shopping and community centres around the framework of modern transport.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 1 June 2012 9:16:28 AM
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Habeen,

Just wanted to add, as I alluded to, that because "the car" has become so ubiquitous, it's use has framed the physical construction of modern society. We now have a society where most humans don't move through space in a physical manner, where we sit and are transported - with all the accompanying health problems.

We don't have to "go back" to the horse and buggy. The one area where man consistently falls down is his inability to moderate the best aspects of human ingenuity. His failure to moderate the use of the car will of course be tempered in the future by the availability and price of fuel.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 1 June 2012 9:37:59 AM
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I am now Elderly (76) need heart transplant and live in an outer suburb of melbourne with no rail link. Have never wanted to drive a car. I Used to easily ride a bike and want a really good electric bike. Known as a “Pedelec” A 1990 Japanese invention that take 50% less effort to ride. The 250 watt “pedelec” is perhaps the safest type of mass produced electric bicycle; available in Europe the US and Japan, but banned from sale in Australia and Victoria ( thanks to VicRoads and other state road agencies negligence) since 2001. It offers a simple, healthy alternative to much motor vehicle travel in urban areas. New EU Pedelec safety regulations will apply in Australia in 2012 according to the Commonwealths Department of transport and Infrastructure, and most likely by a new government and enthusiastic bike rider for PM .

Australia should adopt Pedelec EU standards for 4 reasons. 
1: In 2010 pedelecs were considered safe and used in countries with overall low road death rates per 100,000 population:Sweden, the Netherlands, Japan, Switzerland, Denmark and Germany. In law they are bicycles,compulsory costs. 
2. Pedelecs enlarge train and bus access and make cross suburban travel across 
radiating rail lines easier, Pedelec access is three times more efficient than a bicycle. 
3. Millions of the elderly find walking and driving too stressful. Japan conducted research,which found thatelderly cyclists needed bicycles with auxiliary motors that took 50% less effort to ride. 
4. Pedelecs are similar to bicycles, with similar low weight, wheels and frames; but safer with automatic motor start and cut out at 24 km/hr.


The finding that most bike friendly cities are safer has been reinforced by the recent experience of US cities such as Cambridge, Portland, and New York. These cities have garnered much press for their success in dramatically increasing bike use and an equally dramatic decrease total traffic fatality rates..
Posted by PEST, Friday, 1 June 2012 11:55:15 AM
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Poirot,

spot on! Humans just incapable of moderation--but that's the capitalist way rather than human nature. Globally, out economies are just so tied to the motor car that if there was a sudden take up of bikes as opposed to cars, on the order of say 20%, it would probably lead to mass unemployment and recession. Car sales are always one of the big indicators of economic prosperity.

Pest,

you're an inspiration and I've no doubt your vision will be realised when needs must. In the meantime I hope you continue to be a "Pest" to urban planners.
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 1 June 2012 3:51:28 PM
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*Humans just incapable of moderation--but that's the capitalist way rather than human nature*

Do not kid yourself there, Squeers. People do things, because they
can. If the system enables them to, some do. I remember reading
of a Morroccan Sheik who had 800 women in his harem. I doubt if
the fellow had ever heard of capitalism.

Capitalism is simply the whipping boy that you use, to excuse
human nature.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 1 June 2012 4:33:28 PM
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I agree Yabbs.

'Capitalism is simply the whipping boy that you use, to excuse
human nature.'

As I said in another thread, it's more instructive what people buy, and how it is sold to them. The innate thing is what they're looking for. People cant 'afford' not to have a car, in time or money, as it conflicts with their need for private schools and a home theatre room and a bunch of other things, and they sure as hell don't want to do exercise.

Even with cyclists, you don't see them with bagels in the front, riding with a flowing dress. Well you do in Paddington, but generally they're in the latest lycra, with the latest 'Mountain' bike. People like to have the idea of riding, but with all the comforts, and being able to maintain a fashionable look.

Just like to compensate for their desire to have that quaint village existence, we have cooking shows and shabby chic.

It's a conflicted world. Of course people wouldn't really be any happier with that village existence, they just think that's what they want. What they do and what they buy is a better indication of what people really want deep down.

We go to poor countries to go through a 'journey' and immerse our self in culcha, but we don't want to actually live like that. Good god!

The sum total of human endeavour is to be comfy when you break it down. The pillars of society; Leisure, Comfort, Safety, gossip an being better than the neighbors.

The Rodent was never more profound than with 'Relaxed and Comfortable.'
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 4 June 2012 10:00:09 AM
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Yabby:
<Capitalism is simply the whipping boy that you use, to excuse
human nature>

Not at all old chum. I don't really believe in human nature, apart from the basic drives--survival, procreation, techne, creativity etc. Apart from them we're a tabula rasa waiting to receive whatever impressions the host culture instils (though I half subscribe to the notion that consciousness implies a critical distance between the subject and its acculturation). Human nature is your whipping boy to excuse capitalism.
The real centre of our being is ideological (there is no centre); we adapt to prevailing conditions. There are those innate human forms of adaptation, however, techne and creativity, which are perhaps as natural to us as flight to birds, but rather than these being given scope for development, under capitalism we are flightless, alienated from our natural proclivities, which are exploited, commodified and fed back to us instead. Such at least is the Marxist critique in a nutshell.
Nature did not make us naturally vicious, or avaricious, and capitalism is not our natural habitat--it's merely the ideology we are interpellated into, that most of us are incapable of seeing beyond, let alone critically.
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 4 June 2012 2:21:58 PM
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*I don't really believe in human nature, apart from the basic drives--survival, procreation, techne, creativity etc.*

Squeers, what you believe or don't believe, is simply a matter of
your opinion. So I look at the realities. No matter which system
you can think of, socialism, communism, etc, invariably those
who are able to access power and resources, land up usually being
older men who land up shagging attractive younger women. All part
of their basic drives really.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 June 2012 2:34:45 PM
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Yabby,
you look at the realities.. Don't flatter yourself! What do you see in the ideological fog?
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 4 June 2012 3:24:55 PM
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Squeers, I see that people usually put self interest ahead of the
communal good.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 June 2012 3:51:15 PM
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Yabby:
< I see that people usually put self interest ahead of the communal good>

And yet people formed societies and institutions and community and shared beliefs. We are social animals by definition, above and beyond animal or individual being. Without society and culture and ideology, we’re merely animals, mute and stupid. The modern institution of self-interest, Thatcher’s self-fulfilling prophecy that there’s “no such thing as society”, only individuals and families, that seems so compelling to libertarians, denies the whole history of social evolution in favour of post hoc devotions to an economic abstraction.

Houellebecq,
I think the rodent’s predecessor was closer to the money with his “life wasn’t meant to be easy”. For humans to be relaxed and comfortable is non sequitur, as the incidence of “mental illness” and obesity and NCD’s in the modern West suggests. You’re guilty of the same post hoc fallaciousness as Yabby with your “the sum total of human endeavour is to be comfy when you break it down. The pillars of society; Leisure, Comfort, Safety, gossip an being better than the neighbors”. These are the consolations of a commodified life, not the end of the rainbow. According to materialism there is no purpose to life, yet Man’s capacity not merely to adapt, but to Terraform, gives her the capacity to transcend nature and make a very Eden, at least in conception and aspiration. To throw that potential away in favour of the “virtue” of self-interest and mean-spirited avarice and sloth, is to deny human striving "as" potential. Why did we not stop with the decadence of Henry the 8th or Louis the 14th? Yet you propose we stop now with the drastic inequities and decadence and wretchedness of late capitalism because some of us are relaxed and comfortable (and fat and lazy and neurotic and devoid of talent)?
If Adam Smith was around to today he’d admit that enlightened self-interest had culminated in a new dark age.

But back on topic; on your bikes, Squires!
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 4 June 2012 6:02:47 PM
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*And yet people formed societies and institutions and community and shared beliefs.*

Well of course we have, Squeers. Not that much different from a tribe
of chimps or bonobos, who cooperate for their mutual benefit.

All this has been studied to death by the field of evolutionary
psychology. Perhaps you need to put down the philosophy books and
pick up some evolutionary psych books to catch up. Read up on
Trivers theory of reciprocal altruism amongst nonkin and similar.

Fact is however, at the end of the day you are a creature of self
interest. You married your partner because of the way she made YOU
feel at the time. If the crunch comes, you will put yourself and
your family first. If you are doing well, you can afford to be generous
and feel good about it, so you are still rewarded.

That is a long way from us being selfless creatures prepared to
sacrifice everything for the good of society, as you seem to dream
about.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 June 2012 6:32:04 PM
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Yabby,

"...I see that people usually put self interest ahead of the communal good."

Do you think that would be as likely to dominate behaviour in a traditional co-operative society as it is in a capitalist industrial society?

Capitalism solicits the practice of selfishness and greed - gives it kudos.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 4 June 2012 8:23:51 PM
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Poirot, capitalism simply enables people to obtain capital, which
is required for many innovative projects. It also enables consumers
to vote with their wallets. How this is all used, is really up
to the individual.

Let me give you an example. After living in the hustle and bustle
of various cities, I believed that my happiness was in the country,
with some land, some animals, doing my own thing. Politics
interfered with all that. Subsidies dumped on global markets by
the EU and USA, made things extremely difficult for Australian
country dwellers.

I was not about to give up on my dream, so I raised some capital,
came up with some novel ideas, gave consumers what they might want,
earned some money and when I thought that I had enough to live
the lifestyle that I wanted to live, I sold the business.

All possible due to capitalism and the market, nothing to do with
greed or kudos.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 June 2012 8:56:24 PM
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What started off as discussion of Bicycles: sustainable transport needs city infrastructure
always finishes up as a silly squabble between Jabby and Squeers.
Posted by PEST, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 12:05:28 PM
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I'm sure it seems that way to you, PEST, but in the scheme of things I think bicycles and sustainable transport are pretty silly.
Like everything revolves around that!
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 8:05:02 PM
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