Yet again we see an article that just completely ignores the fact that mandatory detention is a necessary as part of the deterrence factor, and that if we have no mandatory detention and allow all asylum seekers to move freely in society straight away, it would create a huge additional pull factor.

This would just keep the simmering social tension caused by onshore asylum seeking happening in an ongoing manner and at a greater rate of arrivals than at present.

It would cause conflict between Australian people and its government, it would necessitate many millions of dollars of tax-payers’ money being spent on this when it should be spent on all manner of things to improve the quality of life for Australian citizens.

And it would cause thousands of people to be subjected to the vagaries of people-smugglers and very dangerous open-ocean trips on rickety boats.

Dr Sev Ozdowski OAM is Adjunct Professor at the Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies.

Well, how does all this sit with peace and conflict in Australia??

A no-detention regime is just not on.

For children, sure in some if not all instances, get them out of detention. But otherwise, we really do need to move back to a full mandatory detention regime, including Nauru and Manus Island.

For Australia to be trying to work with Indonesia to reduce onshore asylum seeking while at the same time increasing one very significant pull factor by watering down mandatory detention is just totally contradictory and stupid!

Come-on, we should be making every effort to CLOSE DOWN onshore asylum seeking and be putting all of our efforts into assisting refugees through our offshore programs within the refugee category of our immigration program, and with increased and better-directed international aid.

Much more effort should be made to advertise the fact that if you come to Australia illegally then you will be in Detention for an indefinite period, maybe forever.

And so it should be. & in the words of the immortal, "This, I believe."

A better idea would be automatic & immediate repatriation, using as much force as necessary, to the point of embarkation.

Give me the old HMAS Kanimbla, & a contract for 20% of what we now spend on these invaders, & I'll get it done, no problem.

Just like that useless UN a talk fest has failed. Now is the time for action.

Hasbeen, are you looking for crew?

And the usual haters come out to play without thought.

We are talking about the illegal jailing of innocent children and still the thugs think that is great.

Sev is dead wrong though to link the ALP with the arrival of refugees because they tinkered with some of the worst of the so-called policy.

In 2009 a few minor things happened.
1. the killing fields of Sri Lanka with 40,000 civilians slaughtered, 300,000 jailed and 11,000 disappeared. Our only response was to help the navy stop anyone from leaving which is criminal and illegal.
2. a surge in sectarian violence against christians in Iraq sent thousands fleeing all over the world.
3. a rise and rise of the taliban in Afghanistan sent thousands of Afghans fleeing.
4. the illegal and bogus election in Iran with the mullahs rigging the vote and the jailing and torture of tens of thousands of dissenters.

Not a bit of it had anything to do with who the hell the PM of Australia was with less than 1% of all those fleeing for their lives getting here.

Mention asylum seekers and out come the Red Necks, oh to be whiter than white!!

Marilyn S: And the usual haters come out to play
We don't hate anyone. That's only your perception & it's wrong.

without thought.

I'm sure we have all given it a great deal of thought. I have.

We are talking about the illegal jailing of innocent children

Oh! bleeding heart be still. I hope you have put in to foster a refugee in your home.

and still the thugs think that is great.

Somewhat of an insult, just because we have an opposing view to you. Very inappropriate.

Sev is dead wrong though to link the ALP with the arrival of refugees because they tinkered with some of the worst of the so-called policy.

Both sides of Politics have done nothing to solve this problem & that's the way they want it.

In 2009 a few minor things happened.
1. the killing fields of Sri Lanka with 40,000 civilians slaughtered, 300,000 jailed and 11,000 disappeared.

The Tamils account for the greatest number of these deaths

Our only response was to help the navy stop anyone from leaving which is criminal and illegal.

& rightly so.

2. a surge in sectarian violence against Christians in Iraq sent thousands fleeing all over the world.

I have no problems with Christians coming here legally. I do have problems with Muslims of any description.

3. a rise and rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan sent thousands of Afghans fleeing.

Yep. & we were trying to kick the Taliban out but bleeding hearts want us to let them take over again.

4. the illegal and bogus election in Iran with the mullahs rigging the vote and the jailing and torture of tens of thousands of dissenters.

Old news, Muslims. Who cares.

Not a bit of it had anything to do with who the hell the PM of Australia was with less than 1% of all those fleeing for their lives getting here.

Good, let's cull that down to 0% of illegal’s.

Kipp: Mention asylum seekers and outcome the Red Necks, oh to be whiter than white!!

Another inappropriate insult from a bleeding heart.

They don't even bother to read the articles.

oh to be whiter than white!!
Kipp,
I find this remark exceptionally racist & ignorant to boot. Are my taxes helping to feed you ?

the mullahs rigging the vote..
Marylin,
What do you suggest we do with the rigged refugees that the Mullahs send here ?

This is an article about jailing refugee children.

Ludwig and co, you need to read more.

Obviously we have given it more thought than your simple emotional response Marilyn.

We have looked into the current situation in Sydney, where some areas are right now no go areas for old Ozzies. We have seen the effect of the hate many we have let into our country have for us.

We have projected what we see into a future with even more of these who want to force their hate filled societies upon us, & don't want it for our kids.

Try doing some thinking some time yourself, your type of bleeding heart bull is not wanted by real thinking people.

After four years, logged on to this forUm to see if there's any improvements in some people's racist attitude, but unfortunately some of our mates are still riding the same old horses of hate and racism. Haven't the school, you attended for years, helped you guys improving your behavior, if not, I guess it's time to think about it seriously and perhaps see each one of you a doctor, coz it's a DISEASE for heaven sake, get the medicine. Goodbye

Marilyn, I wrote this in response to you on your similar thread on 15/5:

<<< And of course, there is not a hint of response in your post to the main point I was making – that a real humanitarian would want to STOP onshore asylum seeking and concentrate their efforts on the most needy of refugees, to be accommodated through our formal immigration program.

You apparently have no concept of a holistic approach to this issue and can only see little bits of it in isolation to the bigger picture. >>>

You didn’t respond.

It wasn’t the first time I have pulled you up on this point.

Isn’t it the truth, which you can’t deny but won’t admit - you are so narrowly focussed and not in the slightest bit interested in the bigger picture.

By all indications, you just don’t care if asylum seeking goes on forever and escalates greatly, with all the horrible problems that it would bring, just as long as children are not held in detention.

By the way, I did say on the current thread:

<< For children, sure in some if not all instances, get them out of detention. >>

Did you not read that or did you just conveniently ignore it?

You couldn’t be seen to be agreeing with that horrible Ludwig now could you?!

Here's the thing Ludwig, there is no such thing as granting protection visas off shore because people have to be here to apply for them.

Jesus wept, will some of you learn the law.

learn the law.
Marylin,
Sensible & sober thinking people know plenty of jokes, they don't need these laws.

<< Here's the thing Ludwig, there is no such thing as granting protection visas off shore because people have to be here to apply for them. >>

What are you saying Marilyn – that if we has offshore detention, children could not be placed out of detention??

Of course they could, if we had a policy of placing them out of detention, or of doing so unless they strongly wanted to remain with their parents / guardians / group they came with.

There is no reason why an offshore mandatory detention program would necessarily mean that kids would be held in detention.

I’ll take your lack of response to the main point in my last post as absolute confirmation that you do indeed have a terribly narrow focus and no interest at all in anything to do with asylum seekers or refugees that is even slightly broader than children in detention.

<<We are talking about the illegal jailing of innocent children>>

Yes, lots and lots and lots of innocent children …

“Child refugees coming alone to Sweden aren’t always children. According to workers at several different refugee housing facilities, many people say that they are younger than they actually are in order to get better treatment and avoid deportation.Sometimes the difference in real age and given age can be upwards of ten years, leading to problems when it comes to schooling, medical care, and housing.
http://www.hiiraan.com/news2/2010/mar/refugees_lie_about_age_to_avoid_deportation_but_at_a_price.aspx


And it’s not just happening in Sweden …

“Victoria's biggest youth immigration detention centre in Broadmeadows is filled with many asylum seekers claiming to be under 18 to escape the tougher regulations for adults, an investigation has discovered”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/asylum-seekers-pretending-to-be-teenagers-for-faster-processing/story-e6frf7jo-1226056354628

Seeking “asylum” is one of the biggest and baddest scams around.

This whole debate about these children made me think of the many children of low income Australian parents. Don't these children effectively also exist in a kind of detention ? Confined to poverty with no foreseeable escape ?
If people want to get onto the "poor" children bandwagon than don't just look over the barbed wire fence, look over your shoulder as well, on this side of the wire. Many children in detention are being looked after way better than many of our homegrown poor.
I'm aware they're not in the fashionable compassion category as the detention children but treated even more compassionless by our authorities.

Never mind who may be in detention, overpopulation tends to be a euphemism for over-immigration and remains the elephant in the room. Every country in the world is already well populated, in most cases quite overpopulated.

Although "family planning" is an admirable goal, what such organisations rarely state is that it is not where a child is born that really matters, demographically and economically, but where that person is eventually living, not the moment of birth, but the decades between birth and death, during which time that person will be consuming the world's resources, along with 7 billion other people doing the same. Vis, Australia is pretty much full already.

Emigration and immigration, transferring the problem of overcrowding from one country to another, do no good at all; if anything, they simply perpetuate the illusion that birth control is unnecessary. Nor should concerns about population movement be labelled parochial, provincial, narrow-minded, as opposed to the more-fashionable concept of "thinking globally": just as "spreading the wealth" (the socialist ideal) results only in universal poverty, so "spreading the population" only exacerbates universal overpopulation.

Discussion of overpopulation, however, is the Great Taboo. Politicians will rarely touch the issue. To speak against overpopulation is an exercise in futility. How likely is it that the required massive change in human thinking will ever take place? Even in "developed" countries, to broach the topic of overpopulation is often to invite charges of racism and elitism. Read some of the posts above.

Given the continuing detention rates and an unlikelihood things will improve geopolitically in the medium term it might be more sensible to think in terms of the medical system of triage: let us worry and save those who can be saved.

The entire reason d’être of this article is irrelevant, like so many other species, humanity expands and consumes until its members starve and die. The basic problem of human life has still never been solved; the imbalance of population and resources.

As a result, the competition for survival is intense, and for most people life is just a long stretch of drudgery followed by an ignoble death.

It is ironic that birth control, the most important invention in all of human history, has been put into practice in such a desultory manner.

Why are we looking for intelligent life on other planets, when there is still so little of it on Earth?

Geoff,
Yes, just imagine how many sterilisations could be carried out & how many contraceptive pills could be bought for the billions of aid dollars being forked out each year.
Our silly authorities reward people to have more children that they can't afford to feed. pretty bloody stupid if you ask me.
You can't blame people for trying to get as much as they can but you can throw 99% of the blame at our bureaucrats but they get reward even more handsomely simply for stuffing up.
Isn't anyone getting tired of this nonsense ?
The proponents of refugee production must be given a wake-up call, send them to the refugee producing countries until they change their mind. Make them work in the centres.