There are no gangs of unscrupulous people smugglers taking advantage of anyone but there are western governments paying vast sums to foreign prison companies to jail and torture refugees.

The notion that transport for people to get to a legal place of asylum is somehow illegal is deranged and I am sick to death of people claiming otherwise.

Dear Shira,
Perhaps unfortunately your religious & ethnic background has obviously coloured your observations somewhat. I am also a boat migrant person in the broad sense, the difference between myself and the present boat refugee is the manner in which I undertook the boat journey.
Possibly not unlike your Grandfather and Father I had permission to land in Australia before I boarded the ship that brought me here. I was not fleeing persecution or leaving my birth country illegally, or, perhaps even because of my previous criminal activities. I boarded the boat in an attempt to better my meaning of life. I deliberately chose to come to Australia for a number of reasons, the chief reason being it was a democratic country with a history of social justice. When I arrived her I made a very conscious attempt to accept my adopted country's, customs, culture, way of life,mode of dress, etc.In other words to fit in. This I believe I have accomplished without any government handouts or even any expectation of such assistance.
It would seem to me that quite a large number of these illegal boat refugees expect to live exactly the same lives as they lived in their birth country with no or little intention of accepting the customs, culture, etc, of their adopted land. They also expect the government to assist them financially and in kind.
I agree the legal migration process should be enlarged and streamlined
but no person should come here or be encouraged to come here unless that person or persons has been formally processed and assessed to be a suitable migrant to be granted permanent residence in this country.

no gangs of unscrupulous people smugglers
Marylin,
You're obviously ignorant about the seasonal conditions of Timor Laut.

Repeat after me, Shira : Australia cannot save the world. Australia
cannot save the world. Australia cannot save the world. etc.

How many hundred thousand refugees a year, do you think we should
take?

Australia cannot save the world.
Oh c'mon Yabby,
We have the Carbon Tax for a start, that'll save the world, Australia can accommodate at least 50 million people in third world conditions & you say Australia can't save the world ?
The Malayisia solution could have saved the world but Tony Abbott so clearly ruined that idea.
You need to have more faith in people like Shira & Julia & Marylin & 579.

And four of the usual suspects add zero.

And four of the usual suspects add zero.
Marylin,
Is that all you can muster ?

Marilyn, while I get what you are saying, I think you do perhaps over-simplify matters just a bit.

If I paid a small fortune for safe transport to a better life, I'd consider anybody who offered me a spot on an over-crowded, unseaworthy vessel unscrupulous. And, as these 'people smugglers' usually belong to syndicates operating outside the law at both ends, the term 'gang' is as suitable as any. Thus I find your denial of the existence of 'gangs of unscrupulous people smugglers' a little difficult to accept.

The second thing we need to consider is whether or not Australia is always a 'legal place of asylum'. My understanding is that we have no legal obligation to accept refugees who have come via another 'safe' country. If they come straight from Afghanistan to our shores, we must offer asylum if they are found to be legitimate. If they come via Indonesia, not so.

That said, law and ethics are two different things. I'm not convinced that those seeking a better life will find it in Indonesia. I'm also not convinced that there is any justice in saying 'no' just because our land is girt by sea and rather difficult to reach in one jump. We have a rather unfair advantage over those countries with land borders which are easier to cross.

I can't complain about asylum seekers without becoming a hypocrite - I live here because Australia took me in after a gentleman called Mugabe made a safe existence in my birthplace impossible. I suspect most of those who can afford to pay the fare for their dangerous journey have skills that are of value here. Many, by identifying our society's values as preferable to those of the country from which they come, may also have what it takes to 'fit in', given some assistance.

The numbers (at present, anyway) don't cause me too much concern. Their method of arrival does. I would hope a much smarter person than myself could identify a way of meeting what I consider to be our legal or ethical responsibilities without encouraging the process.

Is the unsafe boat so much more dangerous than the Taliban, the sectarian violence in Iraq or the killing fields of Sri Lanka and the torture chambers of Iran?

Fair dinkum why is it unscrupulous just because the boat might sink. A plane might crash, a car might crash, trains, buses and even donkey carts might crash.

We don't all stop using them do we?

Australia doesn't care if the boats are safe, they are just too corrupt to admit they don't want the refugees.

refugees,boatpeople,10 pound poms like gillard and abbots folks ! does it really bloody matter .......welcome folks just remember never to vote lib/lab/nat once in.............

Marilyn:

It is my opinion that it is unscrupulous to prey on the hopes and fears of vulnerable people to sell a service you can't necessarily provide. Promising passage to Australia is unscrupulous if:
1) The boat is unseaworthy and unlikely to make it to its destination
2) Those who make the promises know that their passengers are likely to end up in detention centres, possibly to be returned to their homelands.

I suspect that the picture sold to these immigrants isn't quite the reality. The protests, hunger strikes and general dissatisfaction of those in detention would suggest that this wasn't what they had in mind when they set out for our shores. Still, those who get them here can make a nice profit, so why should they worry? Or are they doing it out of the goodness of their hearts?

As for your 'plane might crash (etc.)' argument, it's a bit of a stretch to equate this:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/image/42406-16x9-340x191.jpg

with this:

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/galleries/images/24206/500x400/emirates-a380-landing-at-london-heathrow.jpg

isn't it?

Additionally, your statement that "Australia doesn't care if the boats are safe, they are just too corrupt to admit they don't want the refugees" is a little offensive. I'm part of Australia. I've stated that I do care if the boats are safe. I've never considered myself "corrupt". I suspect many others think the same way as me.

Finally, you refer to Australia as "they". Who, then, are you?

Of course, there is the other issue that the bulk of asylum seekers come by plane, not boat. We don't seem to have such a huge problem with that. I see two possible reasons for this:
1) The plane arrivals don't look so scary in the media; or
2) It is, in fact, the mode of transport that concerns many of us the most.
In my case, the latter is true.

<<As I write these words, I sit surrounded by more than a hundred children of diverse creeds and cultures – a microcosm of modern Australian society – attending a chess competition in an RSL hall in Lidcombe in Sydney's west. The room contains so many of the best elements of being Australian: Friendly rivals united by common interests>>

And we all sang Kumbaya.

MEANWHILE in the suburb of Lidcombe right next door to Lidcombe…

A riot by Muslim youths in Auburn last week was organised via Facebook, police believe. The troublemakers used the social networking site to flash up inflammatory references to police and rally their friends for a confrontation.One update identified police as "non-believers" who were raiding a "brother's home". More than 150 people gathered in Cumberland Rd, Auburn, on Tuesday night, forcing police to call in 100 officers, the riot squad and a helicopter.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/facebook-website-used-to-drum-up-auburn-rioters/story-e6freuy9-1225772429876

And, we all sang Kumbaya

MEANWHILE in the suburb of Lidcombe right next door to Lidcombe…
S/R
MEANWHILE in the suburb of AUBURN right next door to Lidcombe…

Australia does not care if the boats are safe, they just don't want the refugees to come here.

they don't care if they die in Malaysia's rotten jails or are tortured to death at home.

Enough already, everyone has the right to seek asylum.

Marilyn is correct to a degree. It's mostly about not wanting uncontrolled entry. I feel distress for those suffering in transit countries but no more than for those who lack the resources to go anywhere, the people who suffer and die in africa who are too poor to go anywhere safe. Maybe in a survival of the fittest sense there is a better chance that those making it to our shores are better equiped for survival than a kid dying in a dusty village but I don't want to think in those terms.

In the end I live with priorities that place greater value on the lives of those born or welcomed here than the lives of those born elsewhere, a pragmatic choice even if difficult to argue in some worldviews. I live with the same issue when a cup of coffee or some other luxury could be diverted to keep someone else alive for days and I choose the coffee. While nead exists that quandry exists. From there it becomes a balance between my and my communities needs vs the needs of those from outside, I doubt any in this debate always put the others needs on a par with their own needs.

In regard to the status of refugees my laymans reading suggests that some of those rights are contingent on coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened.

R0bert

@Marilyn,

<<Enough already, everyone has the right to seek asylum>>

And more than once it appears:

“ASYLUM seekers rejected after arriving by boat a decade ago are boarding vessels and coming back to Australia in the latest surge of arrivals.

Despite the majority having had asylum claims rejected twice, most are asking for multiple appeals and several have taken their cases unsuccessfully to the High Court. Immigration reports tabled in parliament by the ombudsman show 11 cases where asylum seekers have come by boat twice and had their cases reviewed because of the length of time spent in detention.

The number is almost certainly higher but the government does not keep statistics on people who arrive by boat multiple times."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/rejected-refugees-get-back-on-boats-for-another-go/story-e6freuzr-1226359362035

If at first you don’t succeed change your name (or your story) and try again!

The reason why things just don't get better is because every generation produces good & bad.
Also produced in every generation are those who cry injustice but do nothing about it.
If you want to be kind to the boat people then you have to be unkind to Australians & vice versa.
Are the proponents for letting more & more people into Australia actually contributing in helping these people or are they just crying foul & expect everyone else to do the indefinable "something".
They could for example forfeit their comfy lifestyle here & go to the countries that the boat people transverse & help look after the boat people.
There isn't anyone who doesn't feel sorry for the genuine refugees but by advocating their coming here they help increasing the number of people living in misery.
It really is as simple as damned if you do & damned if you don't.
Go over there & explain to them that they would be much better off having fewer children & see how long you last.