As far as I know, the state registration bodies are independent statutory authorities and are not bound by federal deliberations, but the problem is earlier than the recent decisions of the Australian Institute for Teaching and School Leadership.

AITSL as just another quango. It has no connection with classroom reality, being totally appointed by the federal government, on the advice of the various state governments. In essence, it is a body representing the employers of teachers, thus creating a massive conflict of interest, and it will come to be regarded with contempt by teachers.

State registration authorities, such as the Victorian Institute of Teaching and the Western Australian College of Teaching, are connected with classroom reality because teachers have directly elected representatives on their governing bodies.

The solution is not a separately elected federal body. The solution is a federal body drawn in large measure from the existing elected members of the state and territory registration authorities. Then we might have some faith in any criteria they draw up.

WACOT stopped a move to put unqualified people into classrooms some years ago, and it is possible that some other states’ authorities will also remain committed to professional standards and thus stop the placement of the unqualified pretend teachers of the deplorable Teach for Australia in front of the classes of disadvantaged students, though VIT has caved in already. It is no wonder the totally government-appointed AITSL is “needed” to override the profession as refugees from Blair Labour continue to impose their failed agenda on this country.

Anyone interested in the history of teacher registration and why teachers themselves should actually have a say in it can see http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/414698.aspx?PageIndex=48.

The problem with teachers as I see it is.
The first Problem.
Children go to school at age 5 years. They stay at school for 12 years. Then they leave school & go to University (school) to learn to become a teacher. Four or five years of study then they go to a school to teach.
Do you see the problem. All the teachers from Primary, Secondary & University have only ever known is School & the same with their teachers.
The second Problem.
Course Usability. Most of what is learnt at school has no real use in the real world. (It was once explained to me by a teacher that schools are there only to teach you how to learn.) The Course contents of most courses are not used in the real Business World.
Who puts these courses together? Mostly ex teachers who have never been out in the “Real World” trying to use the course content. They teach Course Content put together by people who have never been out in the real world. The Courses are put together to a formula that bares no relationship to Business methods being used by Business in the real world.
None of that really matters to the teachers. They just teach the Course Content as is laid down in the Book like drones.
Some of these students go on to be employed in Business & find out that everything they learnt at school is absolutely useless & they have to learn their Companies real world methods. Other students go on to the Public Service & implement what they have learnt at school. Just look at the mess we are all in as a result of the Theory of Business as taught at school.

Jayb,

You have no idea what you are talking about. Teachers do not just teach from the book. They develop their own courses. They interact with their students to find the best way of getting material across to different groups. They are creative in their approaches.

The course for beginning reading is totally different from the course for year 12 English. Year 9 English is very different from year 9 woodwork.

Chris C: You have no idea what you are talking about.

15 years as an instructor. Now I am a mentor to wayward children. I guess you're a teacher or an academic, Chris. Yes, teachers do develop their own lesson plans. I had collected a stack a mile high over 15 years.

I have done Business Courses, Computer Courses & Trade Courses. I just happen to be multi skilled. When It was a requirement to the Business Course I set to with gusto, only, on asking my General Manager why none of the course content was used in the firm. His reply, "We have a Business to run & we can't run it on airy fairy ideas that don't work." But it was still a requirement to have a certificate that says I'm qualified to do the work. About 55% of the Courses would never be used. Strangely quite a lot of the Business course concentrated on how to do spin. With the Computer Course. The character teaching had his pet hobby horse. Concentrating on Machine Language, Surds, & other strange things that the average Computer user/mechanic were never going to use in the real world. He would write a hundred lines of code to fix a problem & I would fix it five or six lines & it would be a a more stable solution. I passed all Courses easily but most of what I was taught would never ever be used. Trade Courses are different where most of what you learn is used constantly. (Engineering & Electrical)

cont.
I live behind a school. Recently I wanted clarification on the meaning of a paragraph in the UN Refugee Laws. I asked the Head of the English Department to Parse & Phrase the Paragraph, in support of my position to a Politician. The Head & none of the English teachers could do it, so I went to the old peoples home across the way where I knew I would find an old teacher. I was right & the Politician was wrong & he was cranky & still insists on his interpretation. It’s more convenient. God, I hate being right, again.

I've long held that the Finnish example was the one we should follow? They have the runs on the board and consistently so for some time?
The thing that holds schools back is lack of genuine autonomy and a massive presiding bureaucracy, which quite possibly costs more than all schools combined budget?
The other anchor is I believe, entirely uncooperative unions, which seems to value job placement and retention over outcomes?
I believe genuine autonomy, coupled to comparative apple for apple benchmarking, would result in and or, literally compel best practise outcomes?
I also believe that examinations ought to be overseen by other entities, other than the class teacher; but, ought only be used to evaluate students actual progress and or where any individual might need assistance and or additional coaching; so that he/she doesn't fall behind or fail to learn the basics; that then form the very foundation stone, which the rest of their education is built upon.
These examinations ought to be frequent enough, so as to dispel any fear of examinations, which should only ever be a measuring tool?
Albeit, I believe, that they should be part of a requirement ahead of class advancement, confirming as they ought to, that the student is properly equipped to take full advantage of the higher courses or curriculum.
There is nobody more bored and inattentive; than a student sitting though lessons and or concepts, he/she simply doesn't understand!
If the foundation isn't properly constructed, the rest of a students education may be just so much time wasting difficulty, trying to understand intellectual concepts; that for all practical purposes, might as well be written or taught in a completely foreign language.
Professional Teachers need to refocus on actual outcomes, rather than a spurious log of claims.
That said, de-bureaucratization of Teaching and schools, and or, increasingly rare common sense, ought to free up quite massive funding, that ought to be redirected as improved salaries, essential funding and routinely upgraded skills? Rhrosty.

Rhosty has presented another valid side to the argument. I personally like the Singaporean method. Out of work teachers are paid by the Government (work for the dole) to tutor students that have fallen behind. They are assigned a student. A student may have different tutors for different subjects. If homework isn't done then the parents are asked for a please explain & can be fined if it’s found that they can’t be bothered supervising homework.

I have another approach. The best way to learn anything is explain it to someone else. (teach) A method I use on backward students. It works. "But now for something completely different" To quote the Goons. Average students do reasonably well at school. So they're fine for the most part. Above average & below average students have an enormous problem.
Above average students, get the concept easily & get bored waiting for the average students to catch up. They create & get into trouble because they are bored & lose interest.
Below average students just don’t get it. Or can’t get it because the pace is too fast for them. They create & get into trouble because they are bored & lose interest.

As a former teacher and now a parent, I believe the main problem with our Australian education system is mediocre teachers. We simply must get better teachers and be able to get rid of non-performing ones. The problem is, everybody seems to know who is and who isn’t a good teacher except the schools! The children know, the parents certainly know and speak of it regularly amongst themselves. This is not an issue of infringing on teacher’s autonomy or professionalism. Mediocre doctors, for example, simply find that people go elsewhere. However, in a school, your teacher is allocated to you by the institution. You have very little choice who teaches your child, so evading a mediocre teacher is much harder. Therefore, the school must assess its staff regularly. Measuring the performance of teachers through student testing, parent experiences and peer or leading-teacher mentoring is a sensible approach which will deliver fast results. Mediocre and underperforming teachers should then be able to be quickly removed from the institution, rather than allowing multiple generations of children to languish under their tutelage.

continued from my previous post.

There is a ready solution to this problem. I believe it stares you in the face. No one wants to recognize it because it’s not a Politically Correct Solution.
Combine the two outside groups. Let the above average students tutor the below average students in the same class room. The above average students consolidates by teaching & the below average is helped by his peers to create an interest in learning. Therefore his grades will improve. Neither group will get bored & lose interest.
There are others outside that. The exceptional student who has special needs & those at the other end that just will never make it at all. It’s not PC but the World has a need for Geniuses & those who would be Slaves as well.

hadassah89: We simply must get better teachers and be able to get rid of non-performing ones.

I agree mate. I've had some dreadful teachers in my adult education. Some of them know the answer in a myriad of ways compute 2+2 but couldn't explain how to do the sum once.

I had a bad teacher in grade 6 & 7. The same teacher taught both classes simultaneously. He was an aggressive & loved the cane & bullying. He was later sacked & his teaching licence revoked, but it was too late for me, hives & all. I never achieved any where near the grades I achieved before. Top of the class to bottom in one term. The two classes went from getting an average of 90% to 55% in one term. I still have my school reports from 1950 to 1960. I failed Junior miserably. I have made up for it since.

So the message is, if you get a bad teacher & lose the plot, it's all downhill from there.

The problem is psychological abuse of teachers in a 40 V 1 no-win classroom scenario.

Its not such a problem in select or private schools where authorities, parents and kids are INTERESTED in learning and RESPECT is evident.

But in the 90% slum schools where kids don't want to be present a teacher needs to be a front row forward and an Albert Einstein to not only get success but to maintain SANITY.

The Ed Dept. deliberately throws good teachers into this melee and expects attrition. They waste people like bloody generals in war. And they waste fortunes of taxpayer funds and LIVES! Its all covered up with statistics and bad grades melt into swanky inter school NAPLAN test results.

Solution:

No teacher should have to face even remotely hostile classes alone. In war 3 to 1 is a certain loss. In a classroom the odds are stacked at 40 to 1! Ignoring this is fundamentally ignoring the huge human potential of the classroom. It is replete with all manner of danger.

If that means having 80 students and two teachers that's a better option. One teacher teaches, the other roams to maintain discipline, deal with hands-up questions, deal with daydreamers who are getting left behind and fostering the 10 brightest students to also roam the class at appropriate sessions to assist with revisions. The latter being the TRUE basis for future teacher stocks.

I've seen far too many excellent teachers who have the best intentions just give up under the psychological and threatening environments of a hostile classroom just in order to maintain discipline (at the expense of learning) that could be erstwhile achieved by multi-teacher classrooms.

To my mind its the Education Dept bean-counters that needs educating & with that, teachers will get the respect & mental freedom they require & students will fall in line forthwith!

So you all keep getting stuck into the teachers once again.

KAEP...Discipline should start at home, so if little Johnny/Sally acts like an uncontrollable brat in the school time lines, maybe the parents should take all the blame. Mine were "disciplined" before entering the education system. True, its only 20% of these mums and dads that relates the "too cool for school mentality" and the same parents were taut by their parents and so on. So the cycle is never broken.

Definion.....In its original sense, discipline is systematic instruction given to disciples to train them as students in a craft or trade,or any other activity which they are supposed to perform, or to follow a particular code of conduct or "order". Often, the phrase "to discipline" carries a negative connotation. This is because enforcement of order – that is, ensuring instructions are carried out – is often regulated through punishment. Discipline is also believed to be one of the main pillars of modern life, according to many different religious beliefs.

This is also why more jails need to be built, because of the " I want to be a JAIL want-to-be" why on earth would some parents want to do this to the children they say they love and get payed for? The rest of Australia's good parents have to put up with these small hand fulls that destroys the other 80% of students.

Maybe all expelled dysfunctional students should be allocated and sent to just one special education facility preferably the most run down school for reassessment.

Or the armed forces.....that would be my choice.

Why waste good Australian men when the "jail want-to-Be's" just love shooting up decent lawful people in our towns/cities.

Plenty of all you can eat"drug wise" and the Taliban need something to shoot at as well:)....ok, maybe thats not such a hot idea;)

you know the old saying" one bad apple spoils the barrel.

Its better than the jail system......remember once your in the government's hotel, your life is as good as over.

maybe its better just to invest in some overseas students...20%

cc

Ah Plant1.3!

Nothing like seeing the GOOD in people eh!

If a student has the MIND to disrupt an entire classroom he has the mind to excel in abstraction and thus higher mathematics.

But you need one teacher teaching him and one keeping him in line. The mainstay of one teacher to 40 students is NOT an option for a civilised and progressive Education system.

I sum your reply up thus: "what we haf here is 'failure ta commune-a-cate".

Surely you're not for real!

Message to all secondary school teachers:

If you have any self respect do not work for the NSW Education Dept. unless they provide 2 teachers per classroom! As things stand You are just being shafted.

Plant1.3: Maybe all expelled dysfunctional students should be allocated and sent to just one special education facility preferably the most run down school for reassessment.

This is the usual preferred method of dealing with dysfunctional kids & it just doesn’t work. They leave school & become even more dysfunctional, then end up in jail. These kids should be allocated a special education facility. That, I agree with,but with one difference. Spend the money on educating them now before they end up in jail & becoming a drain on society. They are slow learners, kids with disorders & kids with Bogan Parents who should never been allowed to have children in the first place. If they cannot be educated to a reasonably acceptable standard, then teach them a skill that they could be accessed as being suitable for. This can be done even at a very young age. Or some of them could be put with the class of the high flyers for mentoring. I have suggested this previously.

Plant1.3: Or the armed forces.....that would be my choice.

A method used in the 50’s & 60’s. Unfortunately nowdays you have to have a very high schooling, mental & fitness standard to enter the Armed Forces. Even to be a Grunt. (basic foot soldier)

Surely you're not for real! No not really:) and let me fix up your spelling....I sum your reply up thus: "what we have here is 'failure to communicate. There! its all better. These were some of the old idea's.

I think this is what you wanted to hear.

The Rewards for Great Teachers initiative will receive Australian Government funding of $225 million over the next four years.This funding will support education authorities to align their current approaches to performance management with the national teacher performance and development framework and enable the payment of bonuses to teachers who achieve certification at the highest levels of the standards.

Yes thats fine, however some schools with-in the education system maybe a little different where stabbings, drugs, and other examples not appropriate for discussion.

Funding for the initiative will increase over time as more teachers are assessed, and as the new performance and development framework and the standards are implemented in schools and school systems.

The Australian Government is also committing up to $9.2 million from existing Smarter Schools Improving Teacher Quality National Partnership funds to the Australian Institute of Teaching and School Leadership.



This will fund the Institute to develop the national teacher performance and development framework, along with classroom observation guides, professional learning modules and other online support materials for teachers and school leaders to support implementation.

You must be one of the privlige Cathilic groups.....now I understand.
Good luck.

cc

Jayb,

You agree with me that teachers develop their own lesson plans, but “[I] don’t know what I am talking about”. You give an example from business to support part of what you say ands an example form trades that does the opposite. I’m finding it hard to get what your point is.

Course documents guide teachers, but teachers cannot rely on them to get the material across to students. You seem to recognise that.

Different subjects have different natures. Primary teachers teach reading. Students will use that skill directly in the workforce in almost every job there is. I taught English up to year 12. Students will not usually use the knowledge of any particular novel studied in the workforce, but they will use the communication skills they gained from studying English. They ought to use the skills in what used to be called clear thinking in their lives. I also taught history and geography at lower levels. Students will probably not use much from those subjects in the workforce, but I hope that the understanding they gained is useful to them as citizens.

Chris C: You agree with me that teachers develop their own lesson plans, but “[I] don’t know what I am talking about”. You give an example from business to support part of what you say ands an example form trades that does the opposite. I’m finding it hard to get what your point is.

What I am trying to say that the Course Content of the Business & Computer Courses are padded with unusable material. Some of it so far out of date it's not funny. Some of it is never used & is of no value what-so-ever. So why have it there. Is it some academic’s understanding of Business in the Real Worlds when they have never been there & they have developed, what looks like a good idea, for their Masters. One professor reads someone’s work & develops their own theory , then another does the same & so on. Then that all gets put into a Course & taught to students. &, not that it all wrong, it just that it's a theory that no one uses in the Real World. The Theory does not match the practice.

With Trades. 90% of a what is taught in a Trade Course is used in the Real World. Welding, Turning, Engines, electricity & electronics to name a few. These are subjects where the theory matches the practice.

Strangely, if you have a Trade it is considered to be a lesser vocation than a paper shuffling Clerk. Yet without Trades nothing would ever get made.

Chris C: Course documents guide teachers, but teachers cannot rely on them to get the material across to students. You seem to recognise that.

Yes I do Chris. A good teacher who can get their message across is a blessing. Sometimes it may be a good teacher but the students are not on that paticular teachers wave length. It's a good school that can recognize that, from feedback, & move things around.
Cont,

cont,
Chris C: Different subjects have different natures.

I understand that. Drill, Weaponry, Tactics, Administration, Logistics, Law, Crane/Forklift driving, Rigging. I could go on. All require entirely different approaches. Now I'm about to mentor wayward children in Metal Engineering & Wood Work. "Mens Shed Stuff."

& I thought I'd retired.

Chris C: but they will use the communication skills they gained from studying English. They ought to use the skills in what used to be called clear thinking in their lives. I also taught history and geography at lower levels. Students will probably not use much from those subjects in the workforce, but I hope that the understanding they gained is useful to them as citizens.

I agree there too. But I had one lad come to me to join the Army. Straight A in all subjects, year 12 & hopeless spelling. I had him fill out the form. After some time he came to me & asked where he should write his name. Later he asked me what "Nationality" meant. He didn't get in.

History, Geography, Chemistry & Phisics were the only subjects I passed in Junior. I still have a great love of them all. Maths, Hopeless in school after my friendly teachers efforts. Not.

Jayb,

If you had a said in the first place that you were talking about business and computer studies only, I wouldn’t have even commented, but you said “most of what is learnt at school has no real use in the real world”. Even when you said that the course content bears “no relationship to Business methods being used in the Business word” (why the capitals?), it sounded like you expected every subject to be concerned with the business world.

Well ok, sorry for the miss understanding.

As a part of my Business studies I had to do a Course on Surds. I had never heard of them & neither had anyone else I spoke to. The teacher had an obsession with them. He didn't even know where or what they were used for. We had to do them anyway because it was a part of the course. I still don't know what they are used for. There were a few other Modules in this Course that were of the same ilk. These Courses just went up to make a score for the Diploma. I believe that there are many instances of material like that being taught in schools.

With my Trade Course. I was a late Tradie. I did Engineering (Tradesperson Mechanical) I was also required to do several Modules of Electrical & several modules of Wood Working. By the way. I set the original Course for Apprentices going onto a Building site for the first time. I did the research for the Railway & submitted the Modules & they passed them on to the TAFE for approval. TAFE didn't have a similar Course for Apprentices so they rung me & asked if they could have permission to use my Modules for Apprentices. I was somewhat chuffed. I worked in the Railways Workshops in Townsville for 26 year & formed the first Semi-autonomous Work Group of 46 Tradesmen in 1995. No Manager.

I must say that there is not one thing on my Trade Course that I have not used constantly. Even now that I am retired. It’s handy down at the “Men’s Shed” as well. There was virtually nothing on the Business Course that I found useful in Co-Managing the Stuart Wagon Maintenance Workshop.

If you haven’t heard of it “The Mens Shed” is an organization set up to keep us ‘Old Farts' out of our wives hair. Google it.

I would be interested in hearing what you think of my ideas the types of classes i’ve mentioned in my previous posts..

Plant3.1,

Seeing you have a sense of humour I shall call you Geranium3.1.

Howzat?

Labor has failed every time it has thrown money at problems. From home insulation to solar energy. NBN too: Australia's problem is sustainable energy. Self reliance in near Capital City GEOTHERMAL wells, plus modular turbine & generator industries is ALL important. NBN is like icing a cake when you have no cake!

Thus its no surprise that teacher performance funding is doomed. Naplan tests are a way to hide the inevitable waste by massaging test results to show government improvements where none exist. Lies and statistics oh yeah!

The root problem is disrespct for teaches as losers and government payouts to teachers while mum and dad motgage the house to pay electricity bills will worsen that.

I reiterate 90% of classrooms are adversarial and the 40:1 'teacher loses' scenario is robbing kids of an education and teachers of their sanity.

The solution is 2 teachers:80 students or with restructure of the proposed extra funding 2:60 perhaps. That way one set of eyes is on discipline, talent, weakness and opportunity while the other is on the blackboard.

I KNOW classrooms. You seem to be in an administrative education cloud.

To summarise: You can build a ramp of plastic money under kids and slide them to the river of knowledge but you CANT MAKE THEM THINK. Unless you gang up on 'em and pack-hunt-down their 'bassic fundamendal' talents.

You may quote me 'cause I'm a Cath-a-holic.

Jayb,

I can’t see the relevance of surds in a business course either. In fact, while I remember the word, I had to look it up to find out what it meant.

My great-grandfather, my grandfather, my father and my mother all worked for the railways. They were a very significant institution in Victoria.

I have heard of men’s sheds – a good idea from what I understand.

Teaching is a complicated process. Some of it involves the teacher doing old-fashioned stuff like presenting information; some of it involves students going in their own directions; some of it involves the teacher setting a range of different tasks for different students; some of it involves students working together. There are 500,000 studies that show students learn more when they are actually taught, but the current revival of the failed 1970s open classroom fad is stopping teachers from actually teaching. No doubt, it will be abandoned again, as it was last time. It’s a pity that so many students will be subject to it before its failure is accepted.

This is a useful to very useful piece, not least because of the information about Shanghai-China. Some of the commentary in other domains, especially in the US, has not been careful enough in reacting to the PISA 2009 results concerning Shanghai.

Many of the points made merit attention of course. However, the Productivity Commission is reported explicitly as recommending performance pay for teachers in the workforce report issued last month.

Having read a very substantial part of the recent literature on performance pay - all of which shows especially for people such as teachers that it is a waste of money, I scanned the Productivity Commission Report ready to pounce on any statement which ignored the evidence.

The Commission's Report does not endorse or recommend performance pay! It specifically points out "Efforts to improve teacher performance should not focus on the payment of performance bonuses. The long history of mixed results from overseas experiments with teacher bonuses suggests that an effective and widely-applicable system is unlikely to emerge in the foreseeable future."

It goes on to say, "The Australian Government should reformulate its proposed Reward Payments for Great Teachers initiative as a temporary program that aims to facilitate future consideration of a performance-based career structure for teachers. The initiative should:
• only provide reward payments to high-performing teachers — this will ... require the development of effective assessment methods to certify teachers ...
• not entrench an expectation that higher certification automatically entitles teachers to higher pay .. "

This is hardly an endorsement of merit pay!

One other comment. Why is it that every article of this kind brings forth personal opinion about teachers and teaching – usually the same old shibboliths - and recommendations based on personal experience instead of a response to the article? Australia is becoming known as a country that will not change. That concerns education as much as climate change, water use planning, infrastructure development and a whole suite of other issues. We need to get back on task!

To Jayb et al,

You've really hit on something here - what are parents thinking sending their kids to these otherworld institutions called schools? And these teachers, how dare they have the gall to think they might be able to teach kids how to learn after spending all that time in some parallel universe!

Newsflash, schools exist in the real world. Walk around your local community and you might even see a real one for yourself, full of real kids, being dropped off by real parents in real cars.

I shudder to think what our kids would learn about the world if it was left to the private sector to school them.

Education is about a whole lot more than training someone to be a servant of capital.

greepo: Newsflash, schools exist in the real world. Walk around your local community and you might even see a real one for yourself, full of real kids, being dropped off by real parents in real cars.

I think you misinterpreted my meaning of "real world." Yes there are schools & other things out in the real world. (physically) What I was trying to get across was that a lot of what is being taught in schools bears little or no relation to what is actually being used by the Corporate World today. (real world) That is only for the Clerical side of Business which most schools push nowadays. When a student leaves school & works for a Business they have to learn a completely new set of skills not taught in school.

Unfortunately nowadays Trades seem to be thought of as a poor second to Clerical skills.

I did say that trade skills taught in schools do have a direct use in any trade orientated job the student on leaving school may employed in.

Perhaps you really haven't understood my comment.

This argument that teachers haven't experienced the "real world" because they've never been outside a school is used by those who think that a teacher's job is solely to prepare students for the workforce.

Yes, students should emerge from school with good literacy skills and the ability to perhaps go on to university where they can learn a profession or into a trade where they can be taught on the job.

It's not the job of schools to provide business with ready-made employees. Such an approach would be counter-productive anyway; we'd end up with a workforce full of people that can't think critically or creatively. I can hear the sheep baa-ing already.

Perhaps business people should go and teach in a school for a year before they enter the private sector, then they might repress the urge to teacher bash

Creepo you sound angry & agitated. Calm down old mate. You can get up me for my views, I really don't care.

What I do care about is kids leaving school with all straight "A's" or whatever passes for a passing grade nowadays. They can't spell or read, No-one can read their writing, they can't do times tables in their head or tell the time on an analogue clock. They can tell me that it's illegal for anyone to tell them to do anything & get stuffed. They can tell me that they have rights. The teachers told them so.(but no responsibilities)

You are obviously a teacher & by the sound of it one of the radical PC type that have caused all the problems with the wayward kids. Now someone else (like me) has got to clean up the mess you have created.

Go....