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The Forum > Article Comments > Labor punishing the poor > Comments

Labor punishing the poor : Comments

By Jo Coghlan, published 4/6/2012

Income quarantining in the suburbs.

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On the ground evidence given surreptitiously, by wives and mothers of alcoholics, drug addicts, stand over merchants/humbugging relatives, is at complete odds with author and her so-called "evidence"?
That said, the process needs to be completely colour blind and seriously widened, to end forever the idea that is a colour based program?
[As inferred or implied by the author; and or, other never ever satisfied urban activists?]
Rather than a pragmatic one that ensures kids get the education that is arguably essential; and the only way they can improve their whole of life prospects, or escape post code poverty traps and generational penury.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 4 June 2012 11:32:32 AM
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I'm not sure why Mundine deserves any support, but that aside, the transfer of a scheme for which Aboriginal people were the guinea pigs to communities in poverty outside the NT is a disgrace. Income management does not end drug or alcohol dependency, nor addiction to gambling. It only forces desperate people to turn on their neighbours for money to feed their addictions. Whole communities are stigmatised and punished so that the bourgeoisie in its suburbs can feel satisfied that "something is being done".

See this series of articles:

http://vanguard-cpaml.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/first-it-applied-only-to-aborigines.html

http://vanguard-cpaml.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/oppose-extension-of-nts-income.html

http://vanguard-cpaml.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/quarantine-and-manage-profits-not.html
Posted by mike-servethepeople, Monday, 4 June 2012 2:15:09 PM
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Bess Price, who lives in Yuendumu and knows more much more about the issues than someone living a comfortable life away from remote camps and towns, supports income management. As she states, kids are getting more food and the humbugging (which is really corrupted kinship) where relatives 'do the rounds' to cadge off others is not as prevelant.

Of course, it is not a perfect system and there are good arguments as to why it should not be compulsory. After all, a government that tries to tell you how and where to spend money is running awfully close to a totalitarian one. The Intervention was well intentioned but horribly implemented with undue haste. It did some good but there needs to be far better programs put in place before any real positive change will occur.
Posted by minotaur, Monday, 4 June 2012 3:28:40 PM
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Labor isn't punishing the poor, the ALP is.
Posted by individual, Monday, 4 June 2012 7:24:48 PM
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So whacky. So loose with the facts.

Jenny Macklin is not now and never has been Minister for Health.
Income Management is not bad policy. It works very well for many people living in remote communities, and is extremely popular amongst many of them.
The primary benefit of IM, apart from preventing so much being spent on grog, drugs and gambling, is that it helps prevent bullies, intimidators, humbuggers and exploitative types generally from cornering so much of the money needed for the wellbeing of kids and other vulnerable people.
The NT Enquiry which produced The Little Children Are Sacred report was not an enquiry into child sexual abuse. It was an enquiry into child sexual abuse, other abuses and neglect.
Income Management is not now, nor ever was, race specific.
IM was applied in communities with very high levels of social dysfunction.
Income Management was called Income Management from the beginning. Income quarantining was always just an alternative descriptor.
Non-Aboriginal welfare recipients living in prescribed areas were subject to IM from the beginning. (My next door neighbour, the pensioner father of the local clinic manager, was one such person).
Income Managed funds do not have to be spent on the things listed by the author. Income Managed funds can be spent on anything except alcohol, gambling, pornography, tobacco and illegal goods such as drugs.
Studies have shown that less money is being spent on alcohol following the introduction of IM.
Somebody should tell Glen Brennan that many Aboriginal people in the NT, including many welfare recipients, are not subject to Income Management or the NTER.
Rudd's statement is not in any way inconsistent with IM.
Coglan is confusing IM with the SEAM program in at least two places in her diatribe.
Coglan seems to think that poor people don't have any capacity or reason for taking some personal responsibility or agency in their own lives, or that they should be held accountable for their own actions.
I believe that Mundine agrees with IM.
So do they really pay this person at a university, and let her teach students?
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 1:49:18 AM
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So do they really pay this person at a university, and let her teach students?
Dan fitzpatrick,
Sadly, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of educated people like her. So many in fact that they actually get considered as normal & in most cases as experts. Governments in turn due to lack of wisdom & in many instances, integrity base many policies on the advise of such people. Hence the dysfunction.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 5 June 2012 6:42:57 AM
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I've worked in Public Health and seen many instances of welfare abuse - taxpayers dollars intended to support those who for whatever reasons are unable to support themselves are squandered on alcohol, cigarettes, illicit drugs, gambling while dependents, particularly children, go hungry, neglected, don't attend school etc. I can't follow any logic which opposes constraints on such individuals so a mere 50% of their welfare payment is held in trust to provide the barest basics for the family.

Coghlan is scathing of the "failed policies" of the current and previous govts but hey - "self- determination" in many of the remote communities has been an abject failure. Whether she likes it or not, some Aboriginals are just plain bad. At best useless and parasitic, at worst downright dangerous to the people around them - particularly their own. It always occurred to me that severity of violence and abuse one encountered perpetrated by aboriginal on aboriginal was greater than that seen in cases involving other racial/cultural groups. Then again, if one observes the casual cruelty employed in hunting, where there is no general compulsion to achieve a quick, humane kill or the way domestic animals are treated, that might explain something. We white-fellas aren't supposed to mind this - it's their culture after all ...

In short - all we can do is try to give the kids some chance beyond survival. Those that do get an education, jobs, in other words move into mainstream Australia are the ones doing OK. Most of the rest - without intervention are consigned to a bleak future.

What I'd like to know is what does Ms Coghlan suggest should be done to fix the problem? Aboriginal, whitefella or whatever - there is an obligation to provide for the family with money provided. If recipients show no responsibility then they lose the privilege of full management. Sounds fair to me!
Posted by divine_msn, Friday, 8 June 2012 11:27:07 PM
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