Ben,

You are voting for something that no longer exists, but you would like to believe does. The reason that the voters have abandoned labor is precisely because while labor espouses certain values, its actions completely ignore them.

Secondly the class system of the 50s no longer exists. Trade unions represent about 1 in 8 "workers", and the regressive Labor policies being introduced seem to be dragging the country and economy backwards.

i think it is big mistake to rave on about the past and Labor did this and that.

As a historian, you would be better off showing why Labor is on the nose, what are the factors limiting its past approach to its chance of offering a tradtional policy mix, and how Labor can address such realities in a vastly different way than the Coalition.

It wont be easy, but is possible. There are indeeed some Labor policies that are in line with its ideals, but other policy decisions also explain the mess it is in.

The author says that the ALP is:

"a revolutionary ideal that shone out of the late nineteenth century boldly promoting the value and dignity of the working class."

Tell that to the members of the HSU.

I am currently researching and writing up article on calls for ministers to resign in all states and the national level from 2000 to 2011.

The record of Labor will indeed make some interesting reading; will sort of complicate any belief that it is Labor that is the shining light of polital parties, although corruption and poor perfomance is evident on both sides.

No wonder academia is in such a mess when even one of its members can show such a capacity for self delusion.

What ever it is he's taking, I want some. Anyone who can find any of Chifley's dignity anywhere in the party today, must be getting some help from something. To suggest that there is any dignity in any of their policies is such a joke, it's not even funny.

...Labor blunders on under the misconception of "Lysenkoism", which justifies its (Labors) materialistic dialectic. Forgotten are the true theories of Mendal and Morgan which states the existence in living beings, of an unchanging character (historic traditions), inherited through genetics. Lysenkos theory falls flat under the misconception that change in human nature is primarily subjected to, and manipulated by environment.

...But from the perspective of “Unification Thought”, the reverse is true: The human being (as a genetically fixed object), is the subject and ruler of the environment. Labor supporters issued the directive to install a leader of choice (Kevin Rudd), in order to bring the environment under control: A move rejected by the “Lysenkoites” of Gillard and the faceless quasi rulers, to the peril of the Labor machine, forthwith and onwards.

This author, like most of the party politicians in Australia still doesn't get it! All the noise from the people just fall on deaf ears. When results like those returned from the last many polls show resounding discontent with the residing power-brokers those in power ought to wonder why. The remedy is simple - "Listen to the people".
I don't know which result will be worse for Australia come the next Federal election -Labor, Liberal or a Hung Parliament - "We'll all be rooned."

Benjamin,

you sorry university educated over paid socialist fool.

All your high ideals and your lofty goals have very little relevance to the working people of this country.

Most of them merely want a full time permenant job, enough pay or support to put food on their tables, petrol in their modest cars, decent clothes on their and their kids backs, cheapish power produced from our abundant coal reserves, less tax and a political party that represents them and understands these needs.

Their most basic aspiration, now that homeownership is beyond most of them, is for a decent education for their kids so that they can get the f..k out of the situation they find themselves in.

What they don't want is a bunch of overeducated middleclass simpleton socialist idiots to steal their representative partry and turn it into a vehicle for all the marginal international movements that bear little relevance to their needs and aspirations... and who try to keep them and their children in the labor class hell forever.

That's why they don't vote labor anymore.

Benjamin Jones

come now where is the clear thought that should be the hallmark of our academics..

First off, Labor is a philsophy or a point of view or whatever, to you and your political science mates. To the actual voters who matter out in the marginal electorates (remember them?) the party is a brand that has to be marketed and sold..

The media is at times only one remove from the ivory tower themselves, but they do understand that they have to reach an audience, and that audience instantly turns off the moment anyone starts talking in airy philosophical terms.

Its not for the media or the voters to change but for the political science academics to recognise the reality of the debate.. maybe you could switch to studying marketing?

Anyone who thinks that Labor under Rudd could have crept back into the hearts of the electorate has a very short memory. Retaining him in power would have just made Labor's ratings nose-dive that much faster and sooner. The real problem for both parties is that economic management has become a no-brainer, and it's no longer enough to avert economic crises and balance the budget, which were regarded as pretty major and astonishing feats twenty years ago. Now a party has to 'brand' itself with an ideology; and unfortunately Labor's 'branding' is to do with destroying wealth and adopting the inane policies of the Greens.

So Federal Labor is in the same state that the Liberals were in with regard to the National Party when Hawke was PM: alienate your mad minority allies by rational behaviour, and lose government, or alienate the electorate by siding with your mad minority allies.

Hay nutter, I think you should stop beating about the bush, stop pulling your punches & start telling them how you, & the rest of us, really feel.

So you lament that the meeeja treats labor as a brand and then relate a football analogy of blind support for a team, no doubt handed down through generations.

Here I was thinking policy might be worth a mention.

What you're basically saying is that even if Arsenal aren't Boring Arsenal any more, they're still Arsenal, and their current style of play is no factor in whether you would support them or not. So too if a political party doesn't support the same values, you should still vote for them anyway.

' The Labor Party can and will return from its political woes '

And the South Sydney Rabbitohs will one day again win the grand final. How many years of sitting in the rain watching them play like shite with a million dollar team and how much money down the drain at the leagues club is this blind loyalty worth?

Jon J, good analysis.

I share the views of the author , generally . I shall continue to vote Labor , while regretting that Labor is no longer a true social democratic party . It is the lesser of two evils . However , it continues to make some significant reforms , including the less than perfect mining tax and climate change measures .

Not only in politics , but in the provision of government services , the media promotes the principle that we are customers who have to be bribed with special offers and that nobody wants political parties to do anything except supply them with largesse from the public purse , preferably from tax revenue paid by others . Both major parties succcumb to this idea .

Most of those who lament that Ben Chifley and his ilk are no longer around would not have voted for Labor in the Chifley era , because he wanted to nationalise the nice banks which were in existence only to help the battlers .

If Labor does cease to exist , where will the next opposition come from ? The Greens are unlikely to be it , because they will be derided as tree huggers who want to interfere with the nice miners which are the true friends of the battlers .

There will be uncontested permanent rule by Abbott and his successors , occasionally pandering to various fringe parties which will appeal to racism and boganism .

damn you Hasbeen. You always pick up on how illerate I am.

Do you think matriculation might help me ... at my age?

Benjamin doesn't get it? The light on the hill is really the headlamp of the thundering steaming express; roaring towards Labour and the next electoral train wreck! i.e. Labour needs to bring in a balanced budget. Train driver Ben Chiefly, would've looked around for any example of; and shone a light on middle class welfare and cut those rather than the very services the working poor and the downtrodden rely on simply to survive or get by.
Instead, what we get is fairly typical conservative policy paradigms and cuts to essential service; via cuts to the public service. Moreover, those cuts seem to be directed at the rank and file, rather than the often overpaid dept heads?
I mean, when these overpaid "experts" go on holiday; their depts simply get on with the workload; often expedited by lack of often unessential micro management?
Look, if one factors in negative gearing, [the worst kind of middle class welfare, which must be repealed] there is around 24 billions per of welfare for the rich; that can be recovered, largely through means testing?
i.e. How much money could be saved by means testing all public health services; and, if they were means tested as was common practise in Queensland; before the Labour fix, when it had a best practise public health service; the envy of all the other states; and, all those who could afford basic health insurance and better, paid their share; thereby virtually and effectively preventing waiting lists for elective surgery.
Sir Joh claimed at heart he was a social democrat; and the Queensland he handed over, with its own insurance and banking company, its publicly owned infrastructure, rail, ports, gas and power delivery etc, and a decent budget surplus proved that; and indeed, just how far to the right new labour has lurched; as it privatised the very things; that once made life in the sunshine state the most affordable in Oz.
If all that is on offer is conservative policies; then why not simply vote in a conservative party? Rhrosty.

Back in the 1940-50's women relied on a man for income and it was difficult to get s divorce.Many were abused and assauluted by their spouses but they kept coming back for more punishment.

This is what happens to rusted on labor voters. Most of the time they don't even know they are being shafted.In a sick sort of way they probably like it because of the tribal security blanket effect.

The reason Labour needs to cut services; is because of vastly reduced tax receipts. Vastly reduced receipts; even in the face of record company profits and spending, is the result of tax relief afforded by massive reinvestment?
This will lead in due course; to eventually massively increased tax receipts; or, even greater profits heading offshore?
Alternatively, another course of action, is a complete jettisoning of the current raft of convoluted complexity; that merely masquerades as a fair and equitable tax system, and replacing all that, with a single stand alone expenditure tax, set at around a painless 4.8%, which would increase revenue by around 100 billion per!
Ben Chiefly would not have baulked at this or similar reform; nor would any true believer looking to the light on the hill; that showed the way forward.
The federal govt introduced the GST and can if it so chooses, repeal it?
Along with all those regressive measures, like exponentially increasing fuel tax; that add exponentially to the workload and cost of doing business and job creation; that exists in this country!
If the federal govt, would simply assume all funding responsibility for vastly more streamlined and largely autonomous education and health; the states would no longer need the revenue that the granny killing GST provides?
Ben Chiefly and co, would never ever have given up fighting this particularly regressive measure; instead of rolling over and begging for a tummy rub, which seems to be new Labour's way of dealing with extreme capitalistic solutions or reform?
Nonetheless, we can't have a healthy economy, without a healthy environment! Conversely, we need a very robust and very healthy economy in order to affordablly usher in the very changes we and other nations need to undertake, if we intend to prevent a global catastrophe. Currently, neither major party seems able to see the big picture or the way forward? Effective action? Bah humbug! Rhrosty.

Arjay, you're sick - get help.

bonmot,more adhominem.Can you at least articulate something of substance?

In all sincerity Arjay, no adhom - there's a real life out there - your choice.

The NSW and Qld election results tell us that people can see past the 'class warfare' narrative which the Labor Party has used for decades. No-one identifies with the 'workers' tag anymore and non-one wants to. Federal Labor is about to be oblitterated despite the huge efforts of the ABC to save them

...If Marxism is the abandoned child of the ALP, then the ALP is the binge-drinking parent! Marxism itself is lost as a political philosophy, and Labor accordingly has re-evolved as a party of methodology, devoid of a place for history as a component in its philosophy,

...It has abandoned its historic past in shame, and has become abandoned for its crime of neglect; neglect of the vital historical connect to a working class which once was its base, and no longer is, for many reasons often beyond its control; some reasons from within and some reasons from without.

Atman...Your flippant comments make me laugh...

Atman ,Labor will be annilhated,but we need a new party to replace them.The Coalition bar Abbott are in the bankster's pockets.We cannot rely on them since Abbott will get shafted like Kevin.

This is all about a communist world Govt instigated by the UN backed Global Reserve Banks and the Green Movement.They already own and control Greece and Italy.Gillard has alloted 10% of our CO2 taxes to the UN.How stupid do they think we are?

"How stupid do they think we are?"

Very.

The ALP was started to keep out the bosses and foreign workers, they started the white Australia policy to keep out foreign workers and they have no social conscience left at all.

Any party that thinks it can flog refugees off to other countries where they know they will be tortured is not much of a party.

Labour is indeed on the nose. Branch stacking and corruption have destroyed the credibility of the Labour movement. The list of corrupted labour politicians is scary. From Al Grasby to Rex Jackson, Orkopoulos, Ian Macdonald, Gibson, Palazano, Angela D’Amore, Tripodi etc the list is without end. The political system that allows this class of people to present themselves for election should be dead in the water.

It is the calibre of the people who are presented for election that is the core of our problem. It probably comes back to local branches and the types of people they chose for endorsement. There are too many lawyers in politics, I have argued in the past that we need to close the law faculties in our universities and put the effort into engineering and science. We do not need lawyers running our country, they are more successful at corruption and they can phase a denial to make it seem an agreement. Replace the civil libertarians with doers who are not afraid to make a few waves and upset the minority groups.

Well, blow me down, Siller, but I thought we HAD a PM who wasn't afraid to make unpopular decisions.

As for the other side, Mr Abbott has nothing to gloat about. In the past few days I saw an article where he was attacking Wayne Swan, saying that some of the cuts would be to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. It seems he has forgotten that two days before the 2010 election, he stated a policy to do JUST THAT.

Now he's insinuating that someone else is going to do it. Funny that. The day after he made that claim, several items on the PBS were actually lowered in price.

It's good to someone sticking up for Labor, Benjamin, and I have to agree that considering the pressure on the party to follow a populist line, they've done admirably. They've got up the nose of the mining barons and exacted a modest tax--not bad considering their own constituency has deserted them--and they're trying to act on climate change when the fighting against their own demographic as much as against the conservatives. The only backing Labor has on the issue is from the educated Labor and Liberal demographic, but these pale in comparison with the hysteria from both sides over the economy. No one wants to believe the parties over--and I don't mean Labor.
But if "a serious period of self-reflection" is in order, it should be to reflect on Labor values. Labor ought to occupy the backbenches, for twenty years if necessary, and regrow the grass roots of dissent against the neoliberal machine that drives all ideology before it.
Labor should sit back and give the people what they think they want. The conservatives and libertarians don't need an opposition, give them all the rope they want.

Arjay,

You noted that

"This is all about a communist world Govt instigated by the UN backed Global Reserve Banks and the Green Movement.They already own and control Greece and Italy."

Gosh, they must think they've got a bargain with Greece and italy, don't you think ?

Cheers,

Joe

Squeers,

'I have to agree that considering the pressure on the party to follow a populist line, they've done admirably.'

Really, at what point would you say they've done pitifully? Less than 10% of the primary vote? Don't you see the populist line on the issues you see as relevant doesn't mean anything to the traditional labor voter?

If they stick to following the populist line of the educated Labor demographic that's where it will end up.

Mate the educated liberal demographic has always voted Liberal. They are not socialists. I think you are misjudging them for the socialists who claim to be liberal.

'The conservatives and libertarians don't need an opposition,...'

It seems most voters in Qld agree with you ... but not with your reasoning.

'Labor ought to occupy the backbenches, for twenty years if necessary...'

I'd whole heartily agree if you'd change the 'if necessary' to 'at least'.

Good to see we are mostly on the same page with that ... and with your reasoning in support of that.