The biggest lie about the whole sorry saga is that the planet will be destroyed by global warming. No it won't. The planet will survive. Of course, worst case scenario is that humans may not. That is the cycle of things though. Species come, species go. Humans are merely just another species that will eventually disappear from planet Earth. Personally I couldn't care less as I won't be around when humans finally become extinct. When are humans going to realise our species will not be around forever and we have no right to be.

Yes minotaur, alarmism about global warming is a scourge ... so too is nonchalance.

Of course, species do come and go – typically over millions of years. How many years do you think the dinosaurs inhabited the Earth? How many years do you think our species have inhabited the Earth? The K-T event was not caused by the dinosaurs, minotaur.

No other species has been so destructive of the planet’s environment that so many other species depend on, in so little time.

In the space of a mere 200 years, humanity has significantly changed what was naturally stable for 1,000's of years. Minotaur, the rate of change is important – notwithstanding neither you nor I will be around to see the result. Our grand-children’s children probably will.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1920168,00.html

Ok, we won’t reach a tipping point anytime soon, but the planet is squealing. People with their head in the sand are not very constructive, whatever the problem.

Hey Mino

Cheer up, old Taur.

Sing-a-long with Ogden Nash:

"The human race I do not care for;
I often wonder what's it there for.
The only answer I can find
Is reproduction of its kind."

"The carbon tax I do not care for;
I often wonder what's it there for.
The only answer I can find
Is trickery of a government kind."

Alice

When talking about humans bonmot do you mean modern humans or any of the homonid ancestors who came before?

I do agree that in the past 200 years (or you can narrow that down that down to the last 80) humans have caused great environmental change and damage to the planet. All in the name of progress of course. Western society will crumble before global warming culls humans though. History proves that civilisations/societies fall much faster than any major species extinction.

And global over-population is the biggest curse on the planet.

A quick response minotaur, obviously not long enough for you to digest the article linked to. Would appreciate your comment after reading it though.

btw, our species (homo-sapien)

I think there is merit in minotaur's stance. However the arrogance and hubris of humanity in thinking that it can both cause and rectify environmental global scale catastrophes is astounding to me. The Earth will have its own way with us in its own good time no matter how much carbon tax we pay and no matter how much mouth-noise we make about it.

I also agree that social collapse is a much more likely threat to humanity. Western civilisation appears to be coming apart at the seams at this very moment.

So, will we all be going back to the Dark Ages? I doubt it. But there is the possibility of us shooting ourselves in the foot at the very least, leading to hardships and regression of civilisation. This could be brought about by plagues - pandemics of viral infection created in our own laboratories and spread by overpopulation, squaller and/or terrorists, either by accident or mal-intent.

Now that's a far more realistic possibility than humans controlling the temperature of the Earth by way of paying tax, but who concerns themselves about that one? Or maybe that's going to be the next doomsday gravytrain.



And to bonmot - thanks for your reading suggestion. I downloaded some of it, Volume 1, in pdf. At a glance it seems to be in agreement with most of my understandings of the first principles of climate science - no surprises there. It's just a lot deeper and more mathematical, but the principles all look the same. I enjoy the science relating to the climate debate. I just wish people could have more genuine scientific discussion without the hysterics and political grandstanding. And that's another reason I remain unconvinced about AGW.