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The Forum > Article Comments > The politics of Bahasa Indonesian > Comments

The politics of Bahasa Indonesian : Comments

By Jo Coghlan, published 13/3/2012

Why is it so few learn the language of one of our nearest neighbours?

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The twin tragedies for most Australians are that we have come from a monolingual set of isolated islands where (apart from Welsh and Gaelic) only English was spoken (and even then, sometimes should ha ve come with subtitles); and that we have come to a much larger island (plus Tasmania) where there was no particular reason to speak anything other than a better class of English.

So most of us have grown up with the notion that monolingualism is so natural that to try to learn another language pushes out one's knowledge of English, and is bound to end in tears, and may actually damage the brain.

But the vast majority of immigrants to Australia don't seem to have had much trouble retaining their languages AND learning
English. So if they can do it, why can't we ?

Of all Asian languages, Bahasa Indonesia ['the Indonesian language'] is probably one of the easiest to learn. It uses the same lettering system as English, has a simple but recognisable grammar, and is very beautiful to listen to, especially when women speak it. It's not particularly hard to pick up enough of it to make yourself understood and to get around the place.

So it's really very regrettable that more young people are not learning it fluently. Australia will always be where it is, and so will Indonesia. In the future, we will inevitably have much more to do with each other economically and politically - it's closer than New Zealand is, after all, and the beaches are almost as good. I hope I live long enough to see far more migrants from Indonesia, more economic, social and cultural interaction and more intermarriages.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 2:52:38 PM
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So if they can do it, why can't we ?
Joe,
It's a mentality issue that'll take some time yet to overcome.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 8:35:27 PM
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Perhaps Indonesia should start acting like a mature democracy then, and not a backward nation who discriminates against Australians, and fails to adhere universal legal principles. Schapelle’s trial was a travesty, breaching both United Nations principles, and Indonesia’s own legal code. For a detailed background on that see www.schapelle.net/report.html Further, Google: Schapelle sentence discrimination & click on the top link to access direct evidence (from her Indonesian lawyer), of the appalling racism in her unprecedented sentencing. Also, she would have been treated more leniently if she’d helped to hack heads off of three children on their way to school, knifed a young Australian woman to death with 37 deep wounds - or sent dozens to their death (and permanent injury), in multiple bomb blasts, because all the perpertrators of those horrific crimes got far less time than Schapelle. I also suggest watching the new documentary at www.expendable.tv for a detailed account of the Australian airport corruption that sent an innocent woman to hell.
Posted by KimBax, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 10:22:20 PM
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I have heard it said that every language brings with it certain challenges. My experience of speaking Indonesian on a daily basis supports this, in terms of my own ability at least.

For example, the vibrating tongue for "rrrrrrrr" still eludes me and I expect that I would need remedial instruction for a good deal of time to resolve it.

As for the grammar, I wouldn't say that it is easy, and note that at the first Australian Uni where I began studying Indonesian that the lecturer encouraged students to simply remember the meanings of base words which had additional conjugation.

So "main" (mine) is to play,

"mainan or main + an" is a thing which you can play with i.e. a toy

"main main" can mean naughty activities of the nocturnal kind and so on.

..

Of course, it becomes increasingly complicated but suffice to say that in my view, to manipulate the base words with the grammatical prefixes and suffixes and combinations thereof to create meaning, as the Indonesians do, which is often quite different from the way in which we construct meaning when using the Australian english language, takes an ability to learn to think in a new way when one is not accustomed to it, and to me in my experience that is always both challenging and rewarding.

In the early stages of learning a language, it is not uncommon for an individual to still favour the grammatical patterns of his/her 1st language, but to work grammatically correctly in that of another language and dream in it, takes a bit more effort and as I noticed from a cursory glance of Prof David Hill's fellowship report, likely requires not insignificant in country training and experience.

Certainly anything less than daily practice doesn't really cut to me.

..

Here's another favourite to illustrate:

Malam - can mean night or evening

&

Minggu - can mean Sunday

but would it surprise anyone to know that "malam minggu" doesn't mean Sunday night, but rather Saturday night, as in this instance "malam" is the evening which comes before Sunday.
Posted by DreamOn, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 5:27:03 PM
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I quote again from David Hill:

" ... RECOMMENDATION 3:
That the Government undertake a review of the wording and impact of the DFAT Travel Advisory for Indonesia, with a view to making it more nuanced, and noting explicitly that the advice is not intended to be interpreted as a ban upon educational exchanges with Indonesia; and
that the Government collaborate with the insurance industry to assist those educational institutions wishing to travel to Indonesia to gain access to appropriate insurance cover. ... "

Whilst I can understand his frustration, I think that in this particular instance that the professor presumes to know that which he does not.

..

same thing here from the article:

" ... Negative images do not do justice to the country. It may have the largest Islamic population in the world, but no more than a few hundred would want to be associated with the fanatical violence of terrorism. ... "

How do you know?
Posted by DreamOn, Wednesday, 14 March 2012 5:48:55 PM
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Why is it so few learn the language of one of our nearest neighbours?
Jo Coghlan,
When 90% can't even speak/write/teach their own language properly then how on earth can you expect them to learn another.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 March 2012 6:50:53 AM
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Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 March 2012 6:50:53 AM

" ... When 90% can't even speak/write/teach their own language properly then how on earth can you expect them to learn another. ... "

I think that's a bit harsh *Individual* though can accept there are some valid elements to your comment.

I also studied Japanese in my first year of Uni and whilst the written dimension adds additional challenges, the foundation provided some assistance to learning something of Thai and then, as said, something of the Indonesian language as well. Point being is that certain principles of learning one language can be of assistance in gaining greater mastery of another, even I would suggest of one's native/1st language.

As a general comment based on my relatively limited Uni experience, combined with dealing with the various TAFE's and a primary school, I am certainly of the view that it would be a very relevant and worthwhile up grade for our teachers to be taught something of the essence of "Legal Writing in Plain English" and what it means to give "Due Consideration" and how a fact is evidenced.

Another area which seems to me to be grossly wasteful mishandling of our teaching assets is that, again, in my limited experience, we have a situation where the teachers are all making up new material on a daily basis, only for it to be stored and binned and often not used again. Whilst I can accept that there is a genuine place for ongoing development, and certainly say in those areas such as A.M.E.P. which are more tailored to provide a concurrent awareness of the legal and guvment system as it is at the relevant point in time, for the best of this not to be digitally captured and shared around for everyone's benefit is grossly wasteful, and does not lend itself for the teachers to focus more on "teaching."
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 15 March 2012 11:49:12 AM
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To add something more constructive for the writer of the article and those who support the notion that language studies generally are a worthy pursuit in need of additional funding, I am wondering whether this cause may be additionally advanced by lending support to our own migrant population in the extremely important area of "Informed Legal Consent."

This is something that I have previously mentioned on OLO.

In my situation, as Step Dad, it has been determined that in the absence of me adopting my step daughter, that I am not legally responsible and except in limited circumstances cannot sign off on those documents requiring "informed legal consent" as it is a right only my BeLoved wife has.

And, unlike Proff Hill, I am not an accredited interpretor or translator and neither do I have the additional specialisations required for dealing with medical and or legal documents.

Of course, as my wife is not yet fluent in Australian english, she most definitely requires the support of translated documents and oral interpretation.

And Gods, from dealing with chemists who press for a signature in advance of an opportunity to read or at times even having received the script medications in question, to screeching doctor secretaries and medicare forms, to hospital operation forms and the list goes on, I have yet to come across anyone who handles this process appropriately.

As this problem seems to be systemic, I shall refrain from picking on anyone particularly and I note that in my immediate sphere of influence, the matter is being slowly progressed, however, this has been a side line focus of mine for more than a year since our return to Australia from Indonesia and includes 2 letters of apology from the relevant Minister, and numerous conversations and correspondence with what used to be called the "Office of Health Review."

TBC
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 15 March 2012 12:26:04 PM
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Now, by co-incidence if nothing else, the hospital in question now has lots of interpreter signs up all over the place, but they still aren't flagging relevant individuals at initial registration properly, and not all of the doctors that we have dealt still understand the relevant legal aspects of taking consent.

However, change is occurring, if but slowly.

A big expensive job, no doubt, and my heart goes out to those families who have insufficient language skills let alone a grounding in Australia's medical and legal system.

And no, a quick call to TISC on 131450 is insufficient for the big docs and it really requires greater standardisation to arrive at legal correctness and business efficiency in my view.

Thus, if the learned members in language could pull something of this together to assist our migrant population, it may be by contributing to the forcing of the issue of the need to appropriately obtain "informed legal consent," that this in turn will bring about a situation where language teaching and services are up scaled in priority with the additional resources etc also being provided.
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 15 March 2012 8:02:02 PM
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