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The Forum > Article Comments > Criticism should be based on fact > Comments

Criticism should be based on fact : Comments

By Chris Lewis, published 16/2/2012

If political scientists want to bag Abbott, they should at least strive to be objective.

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O dear criticism should be based on fact,it might help if Abbott was not a serial liar who has no policy,he is also a self admitted liar as well.
Just another rubbish article by some one who is ideologically blind to the fact that the present Liberal party is the remains of Howards 3rd team and will be use less in Govt.
Vote for the Liberal party and they will destroy this country incompetent bums the lot of them
Posted by John Ryan, Thursday, 16 February 2012 10:45:06 AM
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A spirited attack on Dr Norman Abjorensen, with whom I happen to agree,but you have said nothing, Chris, to refute the tenor and thrust of Abjorensen's thesis.

I looked in vain for the counter argument, for your detailing of Abbott's positive qualities, for his fitness to lead Australia in what will be challenging times.

Instead the weakness of your defence of Abbott, makes the thrust of Abjorensen's article of more relevance and quite pertinent.

Come on tell us what Abbott's strengths are, in what way(s) is he suited to lead this country?

Bruce Haigh
Posted by Bruce Haigh, Thursday, 16 February 2012 11:20:00 AM
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How can you base anything when they do not say anything.
Instead of talking economics, or something to aid the welfare of this country, all they do is sleaze around looking for some grime.
This cumbersome regime as an opposition is the worst in history, Left overs from a debunked regime.
God help Australia if this mob ever get a chance of reining over AU.
The 1% will be delighted .
The incumbent govt; may not be ideal ,but this country is in good economic stability, and credit must be given.
The alternative is not ideal, but they only have tax breaks and welfare for the rich, as a normal agenda for a liberal govt; a very dangerous regime.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 16 February 2012 11:26:12 AM
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Bruce, the article is a criticism of an attempt by an acedemic to bag Abbott, that is all. It suggests at the end that Abbott's policies may have strengths and weaknessses, and that any criticism of Abbott should focus on that rather than simplistic attacks through a number of MP commnents or comparisons with past PM's.

After all, there must be lots of reason why he (and Coalition) is favorite to win the next election and why Labor is on the nose.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Thursday, 16 February 2012 11:45:38 AM
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We should make a list of coalition achievements so far.
Block the Malaysia solution.
A host of pledges in blood
Down-talk the economy, and run a scare campaign about carbon price.
Not show any interest in parliament.
That is about all i can think of.
We can't list any policy, there isn't any.

Labor has put through 215 bills without any resistance.
Labor is always talking policy, and economics.
We have the worlds best treasurer.
I say labor is in a good position, one out and one back. Not bad for an encumbent govt; at this stage of term.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 16 February 2012 12:12:19 PM
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By all means, let's discuss facts - even uncomfortable ones like his pre-2004 election "absolutely rock solid, ironclad commitment" to keep the Medicare Plus Safety Net in place after the election (later abandoned), plus his involvement in the strange Citizens for Honest Democracy affair.

Then there are his consistent inconsistencies, such as claiming his Carbon stragegy will save million of tons of CO2 but then dismissively referring to it as a "weightless gas".

Gainsaying everything done by the government and simply telling people what they want to hear is not the qualities of a leader but a follower.

Dismissing every opposing professional opinion as simply saying they're "wrong" without any explanation is avoiding the truth.

Criticising ALP factions and alleged Union Influence while ignoring the role of the Liberal NSW "uglies" as his own powerbase is hypocritical.

At least the ALP builds things on top of what is already there but Abbott simply wants to tear down everything they do on principle alone. It's as if he wants to burn all the history books of the last few years and treat the non-LNP period as some sort of political abberation.
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 16 February 2012 12:55:21 PM
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Abusing Bernie Banton just before his horrific death was enough to disqualfy Abbott from decent society.

His notions of mass murder of refugees are an abomination and he is over all a thug.

Just because he can ride and swim does not make him fit for anything at all.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Thursday, 16 February 2012 1:50:21 PM
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And that criticism from Abbott of Bernie Banton will live for a long time.
46,500 jobs placements have gone unnoticed by the noalition.
No questions today for the worlds best treasurer.
The opposition is not a participant of parliament at all.
Best employment figures in the history of Australia.
Jobs and economic growth the priority for the labor govt;
The coalition was worried about the welfare of a couple surviving on 180,000/ yr with extra costs and charges.
Negative trash talk, every time they get a microphone in their face from the noalition.
Labor governs in the interests of the working people.
Australia's economy going through the biggest transformation in history.
An economy that is the envy of the world.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 16 February 2012 2:34:30 PM
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Admittedly there's not much to choose between Abbott and Gillard, but in the words of the old joke, at least Abbott KNOWS when he's lying.
Posted by Jon J, Thursday, 16 February 2012 2:57:43 PM
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To know when you are lying or not. will not run an economy, an economy in transformation, and going well.
The high dollar, is causing turbulent times, but those who survive are in for a windfall. If you don't have the expertise to survive now, you don't have the knowhow to survive at all.
There is 8 billion dollars in 3 years, for the most up to date technology for manufactures that export.
The clean energy future has 1 billion $ for businesses to cut costs and equipment.
Male unemployment in AU is below 5%. and 5.1% over all.
There was 9,112 agreements reached by FWA last year.
Jobs and economic growth a priority for labor.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 16 February 2012 3:48:48 PM
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Chris,

Sorry, but your article commits all the sins you have levelled at Abjorensen - demonstrating bias, and not providing a factual argument (by not providing factual examples) - and so tending to confirm (or reinforce) all Abjorensen has suggested, by the absence of compelling counter-argument. Pity, but it was always going to be a tough ask, as Abbott has not given you, or us, very much positive material to work with. (Is my bias showing?)

Abbott is perplexing, something of a Willow-the-Wisp - standing firmly on family and Christian values, but seeming not to want to be tied-down on much else, save for staunch criticism of anything Labor. Trying to be a man's-man and a statesman at the same time, but not really making it; a policy-maker, but somehow hedging his bets; a leader, but just shy of the requisite image; leader of a strong and unified team, but without a lot of depth in the front- or the back- lines.

Turnbull was a goal scorer, but perhaps, like Rudd, led too firmly from the front, leaving the team too far out of the play - and crime of crime, siding with the opposition on a critical and divisive issue (CPRS) - but not side-lined, and, like Rudd, given a safe 'slot'.

Tony has a tough job; Hockey lacks the credentials and the charisma of Costello; and Truss doesn't really appeal all that much - solid, but uneventful; Barnaby - jack-in-a-box? Bishop? ..?

Tony presents as a capable and credible protest-leader (make a good trade-union leader?), but appears to be relying heavily on Julia and her team making too many mistakes - so he can land a telling counter-punch at the eleventh hour and take the cup? Naive? Tricky? Or, counter-intuitive?

For a Rhodes scholar, Tony seems a bit shy on intellectual curiosity and intuitiveness, and not all that scholarly. A puzzlement. Those who do not commit leave themselves and us in doubt. We are waiting for that strong, positive, visionary demonstration - for the 'image' will not carry the day. Interesting times ahead.
Posted by Saltpetre, Thursday, 16 February 2012 4:21:47 PM
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ok, i am going to do a follow-up article about why the Coalition is so popular, why Labor is on the nose, and why many Aust academics are incapabe of calling a spade a spade.

Wont be hard, but it will take time
Posted by Chris Lewis, Thursday, 16 February 2012 4:28:29 PM
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Bruce Haigh

your numerous scathing criticisms of Rudd/Gillard are ample reason for Abbott to be elected Australia's PM.

After all isn't it a known fact that Oppositions don't win government, Governments lose government?
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 16 February 2012 4:48:27 PM
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Chris,

"Popular" is what Obama represented before he was elected - read "inspiring".

The "fact" is that, for a man in his position, Mr Abbott is spectacularly "uninspiring".
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 16 February 2012 5:06:12 PM
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Yes Poirot, & Obama proved to have feet of clay. All that inspiration was just smoke & mirrors, the man is an opinionated fool.

Tony on the other hand, yes boring Tony, is probably that way because he is standing on rock, & will actually do, not talk about it.

Lets face it, we have recently got rid of one who ran off at the mouth, from a base of froth & bubble. I guess we should give Julia some thanks for eliminating that catastrophe.

Isn't it interesting that the ABC have him all over the place, perhaps they are worried they just might get a bit of the treatment, quite soon, that they so roundly deserve. They seem determined to pick the PM they want. Their taste really is all in their posterior.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 16 February 2012 5:46:56 PM
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Come on tell us what Abbott's strengths are, in what way(s) is he suited to lead this country?
Bruce Haigh,
I'd think a helluvalot better than yours as a diplomat. Give us some examples of your diplomatic prowess which now benefits Autralians ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 16 February 2012 5:54:52 PM
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Individual

1. He's the most effective Leader of the Opposition ever.
2. He united a diviuded Liberal Party.
3. He exposed the folly of Rudd.
4. He went to the last election with real policies and will do the same at the next one.
5. He's consistant.
6. He human and admits to human failings.
7. People are coming to trust him.
8. He's tenacious.
9. He's real.
10. He shares the family values that are held by the vast majority of Australians.
11. He's involved in his local community. eg Surf lifesaving and undertakes water safety duties with the nippers. He's in the volunteer Fire Service.
12. He has three degrees in Economics, Law and an Arts Masters in Politics and Philosophy.
13. He's an accomplished, thoughtful and published writer
14. He's been a Minister for 9 years, Leader of the House for 6 years and a Shadow Minister for 4 years.
15. He was known to be opposed to Work Choices, supported the Apology and consistantly opposed an ETS ... and NBN... as well as instigating the Paid Parental Leave policy.
16. He's determined to protect our borders.
17. He's fiscally conservative.
18. He's open-minded.
19. He has intregity.
20. He's a solid negotiator and mediator
21. He's a corker bloke...

I could go on but I'd just like to point out pretty well all Australian PM's have had quite a few of these positions and/or qualities and have often been commonly defined by at least one of them ... except Gillard and Rudd whose chief attributes respectively are lying and speaking Chinese.

Hell who wouldn't choose Abbott of those two?
Posted by imajulianutter, Friday, 17 February 2012 9:44:03 AM
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imajulianutter,

You must be talking about a different Tony Abbott.

Just a few points at random -

Consistent? Hardly. He takes different public stances on the same thing, depending on his audience.

Fiscally conservative? He's now trying to re-implement the Middle Class Welfare State with his "eventual" plan to drop the Health Fund means test - hardly a Liberal policy. His Parental Leave Policy was going to be a "great big new tax" on corporations and was announced without consultation with his own cabinet. His reluctance to put his last policies up for official fiscal scrutiny plus his inability to explain his current ones look more like fiscal recklessness.

Integrity? His evasion when exposed as a "hit man" targetting One Nation with his bizarre Citizens for Honest Democracy plus being publicly caught out lying about things such as meeting with George Pell show his to be more evasive than honest.

The rest of the list is just empty motherhood statements that could be applied to anyone but he was, is and always will be just a political thug and show-pony with no vision for anybody's future but his own.

If he wants an immediate election, he should have his policies out now - if he really has any.
Posted by rache, Friday, 17 February 2012 10:59:31 PM
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he should have his policies out now - if he really has any.
rache,
why is it when Abbott has a few skeletons in the closet it makes him so unsuitable yet when Rudd & Gillard & indeed whoever their next leader will be have already proven themselves utterly out of their depths then their shortcomings are somehow forgivable ?
Is it really such a desperate attempt to keep Lawyers & academics in power at all cost, even when it's to our severe detriment ?
You lefties really do have a weird way of reasoning. Thank God it somehow looks as though people are starting to wake up.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 18 February 2012 5:18:34 AM
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rache

you were a Howard hater, weren't you?
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 18 February 2012 6:10:18 PM
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