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New orders : Comments

By Hamish Ford, published 6/1/2012

Looking back at 2011, no single event more clearly revealed Australia's role in the world and its longstanding pathology than Barack Obama's whirlwind visit.

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Another day, another academic (in "Film, Media and Cultural Studies") graces the pages of OLO to give us the benefit of his expertise in international politics.

Who cares what this bloke thinks about anything at all?

Ford gives us just another one-sided anti-American rant.

Poor Pakistan, where numerous international terrorists and criminals hide out with military connivance, wasn't consulted before the US took out bin Laden. No consideration by Ford of why that might have been necessary.

Obama "escalated the violence in Afghanistan"? Terrible. And the other side just want to be left in peaceful Islamist extremism.

Obama "stayed in Iraq". Actually, they've left.

Ford tells us that "the USA is arguably the least democratic society or state in the Western world", yet then claims that 80 per cent of the US population thinks that the US is "going in the wrong direction". Ford omits to tell us which direction these people think is the correct one.

Ford doesn't explain how 80 per cent of the least democratic society in the Western world, get to express their views on the national direction without government retribution.

It boils down to concepts of the civic competence of the respondents when you run polls like that one, but that's too nuanced for Ford.

The rest of Ford's rant merely references psycho-babble from Noam Chomsky, whom Ford describes as "the world famous public intellectual". World famous intellectual to Ford, an idiot to many others. Anything Chomsky says can safely be ignored. You won't miss anything important.

OLO really needs a remake. Far too much pap from "students" and academics is published and OLO becomes a magnet for more such pap because it's a soft touch.
Posted by KenH, Friday, 6 January 2012 8:10:53 AM
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KenH

You should take off your rose coloured glasses and have a good look at what the USA is doing around the world, and have been doing since they forced the Japanese into WWII. Will they never learn?

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Friday, 6 January 2012 10:26:38 AM
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Hi David,

I can remember writing a secondary school history essay in which I argued that Japan had been forced into WWII. In retrospect, one can argue that only if one ignores the long history of Japanese aggression in Manchuria and China from 1931 and the barbaric behaviour of Japanese troops during that period in Nanking and later throughout south-east Asia.

Japan was seen as a serious threat to Australia from at least the mid-1930s, perhaps earlier. Japan had its own imperial ambitions and was expansionist.

So I don't think the proposition that Japan's entry to WWII was entirely the fault of the US actually stands up to examination.

While it's probably correct that the US failed to distinguish adequately between nationalist and communist movements in such places as Vietnam, that doesn't necessarily go to prove anything about US involvement in Iraq, for example. Nobody has yet shown me that leaving Iraqi civilians exposed to daily mass murder under Saddam was a preferable alternative to removing him.

So, for my money, the US is generally a force for good, even if the record is patchy.
Posted by KenH, Friday, 6 January 2012 11:06:24 AM
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While the US has a mixed international record mainly over their paranoia around communism, hypocritical and sometimes bizarre religious beliefs and their klutzy cowboy shock'n'awes, they have generally been a force for good.

Perhaps the author would prefer a visit by Robert Mugabe, the new Kim and a delegation from the taliban.
Posted by Neutral, Friday, 6 January 2012 11:48:59 AM
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"Imagine the response if this appalling event was reversed and it happened to us."
Chomsky was referring to Chile in 1973, but the response was imagined. The two towers were brought down and the fix was in. The American Generals and the Zionist lobby have been openly ensconced in the halls of power ever since. (They were there before that criminal act on 9/11, but at least we could still pretend they weren't)
And what have they brought us? A ruined Iraq, a ruined Libya, Egypt heading who knows where, Syria looking like a rabbit caught in a drones headlights, let's not talk about Afghanistan and forget about Pakistan.
And for what? The overthrow of habeas corpus, that most basic of legal rights, and assassination adopted as official policy.
Adding to our sycophantic shame, in Australia we now have a PM who simpers like a school girl when the Yankee pres comes to town.
Posted by halduell, Friday, 6 January 2012 12:38:05 PM
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The worst part about this Author, and his views , is that they are being passed onto another generation , at Uni , as the absolute Truth.

Scarey, Eh ?
Posted by Aspley, Friday, 6 January 2012 3:28:48 PM
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Who is worse?

The hopelessly incompetent Obama, or the hopeless inaccurate commentator?
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 6 January 2012 6:00:00 PM
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It is difficult to know what to be depressed about: the author's (generaly) accurate account of the world's greatest terrorist nation and the sychophancy of its ally Australia, or the ill-informed nonsense that inhabits so much of the comment section.

It is truly pathetic that the choice offered by one commenter is between being part of the American empire or being run by either a Korean dictator or the Taliban.

John Howard's assault on the teaching of history in schools is obviously paying dividends if the dangerous ignorance displayed in the comments section is any guide. It is one reason why, as the author of New Orders notes, we enter into major obligations without any debate in parliament.

The same was true about entry into the Afghanistan war (not "debated" until October 2010 and then only because the Greens insisted as part of their support package for the Gillard government)and the later entry into Iraq. Read Howard's speech to the Australian parliament in February 2003 and count the lies told then for which there has been absolutely no accountability.

I have little doubt that when the US/Israel attack Iran we will loyally line up with yet another travesty based on lies and sink deeper into the moral and lawless abyss that we have become.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 6 January 2012 6:49:15 PM
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"It is truly pathetic that the choice offered by one commenter is between being part of the American empire or being run by either a Korean dictator or the Taliban."

Where was this choice offered?

It wasn't.

So what is truly pathetic is that a commenter can fabricate garbage around what another commenter has said.
Posted by Neutral, Friday, 6 January 2012 7:34:34 PM
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@ Neutral.

Your own comment at 11.48 invites that inference although it was so ignorant it is difficult to be sure.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 6 January 2012 10:53:57 PM
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AT James O'Neill, your back pedalling has spilled more garbage.

Now it's an inference which I invited eh?

What else can you fabricate in your 'moral and lawless abyss'?

The mere speculative rhetoric which is equal and opposite to the vibe of the article is such a simple thing. Balance.

The ignorance on display is the reactionary ineptness to understand such simple things.
Posted by Neutral, Friday, 6 January 2012 11:52:15 PM
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If you want to write anti US propaganda, Hamish, at least try to make it good propaganda. This article of yours reminds me of the “spontaneous confessions” submitted by Red China during the Korean War, which were purportedly written by shot down US pilots. The “confessions” had headings like ‘How My Cruel Capitalist Masters Forced Me to Commit Cruel Biological Warfare on Peace Loving Socialist People.”

Reading your article displays to your readers that the USA does not do a single thing right. Everything the USA does is utterly contemptible. Your credibility just went right out of the window, right there.

Some of the things that you have written about the social system in the USA is absolutely true. If you wish to criticize the USA, then writing about topics illuminating deficiencies in US culture or governance in which ordinary, well informed people readers would agree with you, would enhance your credibility. But writing articles which assume that your audience is all avid readers of the Green Left Weekly firmly establishes you in the eyes of ordinary people as just another rabid hater of the West.

Just remember, that many people are glad that the Yanks finally caught up with Osama bin Laden, and they could not give a crap about any international law which protected him from justice. Pakistan is not “a country”, it looks like a collection of warring tribes where the authority of the central government does not exceed the range of the artillery at the local army fort. Complaining that the USA is violating Pakistani sovereignty is a charge more worthy of mirth than serious consideration.

You even darkly hinted at US involvement in Asian wars. Well you could have some justification there, but there is just one fly in the ointment. And that is, almost everyone on planet Earth can make the comparison between North Korea and South Korea and they know that the Yanks did exactly the right thing by intervening there.

At least give the yanks credit for that.
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 7 January 2012 5:27:15 AM
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I am not at all happy at the way the US Government thumbs its nose at International Law.
I am also not happy at the way our government has thrown its lot in with the USA.
In future we must not do anything in our region that might expand our interests yet offend the USA.
We have lost our sovereignty.
When we become a republic our president will have to toe the line, or else.
Posted by Raise the Dust, Saturday, 7 January 2012 11:04:05 AM
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>> I am not at all happy the way the US Government thumbs its nose at international law...We have lost our sovereignty.

Any examples, Raise the Dust? Or are you simply expressing the anti-American bigotry which is a regular feature of OLO?
Posted by KenH, Saturday, 7 January 2012 11:24:10 AM
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"Just remember, that many people are glad that the Yanks finally caught up with Osama bin Laden, and they could not give a crap about any international law which protected him from justice. Pakistan is not “a country”, it looks like a collection of warring tribes where the authority of the central government does not exceed the range of the artillery at the local army fort. Complaining that the USA is violating Pakistani sovereignty is a charge more worthy of mirth than serious consideration."
Lego: what parallel universe do you occupy? It is obviously one where the probable death of bin Laden in December 2001 did not occur. It is one where the protection of international law cannot be availed of and the rule instead is one of might is right. It is one where one can dismiss the existence of a major country such as Pakistan in the most ill-informed and bigoted manner, denying that county the right to protest breaches of its territorial integrity. It is obviously one where anybody who protests the lawlessness, hypocrisy and behaviour of the world's greatest terrorist nation is simply labelled "anti-American" and expects that to be a complete answer.
Not a universe that anybody who actually thinks and knows about the planet we inhabit would want to occupy.
Posted by James O'Neill, Saturday, 7 January 2012 5:47:22 PM
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Hamish Ford

Finally, on 16 Nov 2011 Australians have been graced by the visit of The President.

It was a victorious affair for him and an assurance for the ones who hold the real power in this country that they can continue to rob and plunder protected by the US military.

Another Statesman of the same order as Obama, Noam Chomsky, was also about spreading his Gospel to a church of adoring literati and telling hell of the President’s intentions.

The two shows were equally staged and ran by worshippers.

To the Australian struggler burdened by an increasing difficulty to maintain a decent living, the price money that these jokers took with them will eventually mean another tightening of belt, however small.
Posted by skeptic, Saturday, 7 January 2012 6:18:39 PM
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James O'Neill,

Isn't it fascinating that the only countries criticised for allegedly NOT abiding by international law are the Western democracies, including Israel?

When the Left starts to complain about the criminal dictatorships of the Middle East, Africa and south-east Asia, we'll know they are fair dinkum.

Pakistan has been colluding with the Taliban for many years. The Pakistan military were hiding bin Laden. And you think the US should have asked them if the tall man in Abbottabad was bin Laden and, if so, would they hand him over? The only result of that would have been another midnight flit and another decade or so until he was found again. You seem to be ignoring the fact that he publicly took responsibility for 9/ll: that's an admission of guilt for a capital crime in Western law. Why the tears for a self-confessed mass murderer? What warped naivete. No doubt you thought that those who died on 9/ll had it coming to them because they were American and/or associated with Americans, so were a fair target.

So, come on, give us all the benefit of your wonderful grasp of international law, should Pakistan have handed him over to the International Criminal Court for trial in relation to 9/ll? Does their failure to do so illustrate their commitment to international law?

Pakistan's role in the spread of nuclear weapons is well documented. Your thoughts on that?
Posted by KenH, Saturday, 7 January 2012 7:58:46 PM
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Ken H. There are so many factual errors and misunderstandings in your latest missive that it would require more space than OLO allows to rebut them all. I therefore suggest that you actually spend some time reading on the topics you so obviously misunderstand before you proffer further opinions. You might start with Fitzgerald & Gould's two recent books on Afghanistan; Peter Dale Scott's American War Machine; William Blum's Rogue State; and David Ray Griffin's The New Pearl Harbor Revisited (Publisher's Weekly's Book of the Month November 2009). There are many more I could nominate but in your case it is probably a waste of time. People as invincible in their ignorance as you appear to be are plainly not interested in information which might disturb your peculiar world view.
Posted by James O'Neill, Saturday, 7 January 2012 11:04:42 PM
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Well I agree with most of the points made by the author, although still waiting for an example of how a country should be run. It seems there are few academics willing to say much that is positive about Australia either.

I have sometimes wondered if the press creates as many problems as it solves, and is this similar with the US. Do they start as many wars as they finish, and is this driven by a desire to drop bombs in another country, in the belief that it makes the US into a strong and powerfull country.

The author could have mentioned a few other issues with the US. A largely pop culture that lacks substance, simply awfull TV programs that we are being subjected to, often highly violent movies that we are being subjected to, the home of rap crap music that we are being subjected to, the home of modern feminism that we are being subjected to, and more and more news about US politics that we are being subjected to.
Posted by vanna, Sunday, 8 January 2012 7:38:45 AM
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I live in the real world, Mr O’Neill, not the Alice in Wonderland universe which you occupy.

For the Pakistanis to complain about breaches of its territory, when it itself has officers of the Pakistan Army actively helping the Taliban and Al Qaida, organizations which themselves do not recognize any international border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, is the pot calling the kettle black. I would have thought that any fool could understand that, but you are obviously in a class by yourself. The most notable feature of anti everything pseudo-intellectuals like you, is that you are totally unable to grasp the double standards which form the basis of your odd thinking.

Pakistan may be considered “a country” according to international law. But the self evident reality is that it is not. If the Pakistan Army is too frightened to go into some areas, and if representatives of that government are not in residence, because they will get promptly murdered if they even try to assert control over local leaders, then it does not take a Mensa from the local Audubon society to figure out that what we call “Pakistan” does not exist as it is portrayed on maps.. Even a Densa like you should be able to figure it out.

Dumb people like you seem to think entirely in absolutes and are incapable of thinking around a problem. You seem to have been programmed to believe that the USA is evil, and you spend your time looking for confirmation of that delusion. The fact that the USA is killing terrorist leaders being sheltered in what the maps say is Pakistan, is proof positive to you that the USA is evil. But to me, reality is more important than illusions, so what the yanks are doing is smart. That Yanks are smart and Pakistanis are dumb, might be confirmed by simply looking at the differences in the social progress and economies of both countries. A smart person would criticize the failed ideology and praise the successful one. But you are never going to do that.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 8 January 2012 7:40:36 AM
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It seems to me that most of what Hamish wrote is self-evidently true and that there are no serious arguments to counter what he has written.

I would also suggest that the work of Andrew Bacevich confirms what Hamish has written. Bacevich comes from a military family,was a colonel in the US military and is essentially a conservative, and a Catholic.

Check out The Warfare State - Washington Rules Americas Path to Permanent War

Plus After Iraq War Is Us by Bacevich

Also the excellent truth telling website Tom Dispatch which also features The Complex by Nick Turse.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Sunday, 8 January 2012 8:29:55 AM
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Well, Jimbo, LEGO has said it all.

Instead of responding to any of the points I made you simply reference left wing academics. Confirmation bias, indeed. There's something very unhinged in a mind that thinks of a significant western democracy only in terms of militarist conspiracy theories.

Never mind, you can hide in the herd of anti-American academics.

Meanwhile, Saddam and bin Laden and Gaddafi are dead and the world is a better place. Or did they have redeeming features discernible only to types like you? Iraqis executed Saddam; Libyans summarily executed Gaddafi. But haven't you thought of a way to blame the US yet? It must have been the Yanks, right?

Vanna,

Sounds like you've never actually been to the US. Your criticisms are vacuous and certainly do not reflect the reality or complexity of one of the world's great cultures. If you're so upset with what you see and hear on Australian radio and TV complain to them or just stick with the ABC, which will feed you a consistent left wing line on everything. But you'd better stay away from ABC FM radio: too much rap crap there.
Posted by KenH, Sunday, 8 January 2012 11:51:39 AM
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Makes you wonder why those who hate, despise and revile the west so much should choose to live in it.

Impregnable hypocrisy.
Posted by Neutral, Sunday, 8 January 2012 1:58:52 PM
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Ford speaks the unpalitable truth.http://www.ae911truth.org/
http://patriotsquestion911.com/ We either stand up to tryanny or be consumed by it.

The banksters who have controlled the US economy since the instigation of the US Federal Reserve in 1913,create all the new money for the Govt and their economy to function.They control the UN,World Bank,Congress,the Media and thus who our leaders will be.

So the choice is ours,freedom or fascism ?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 8 January 2012 8:41:44 PM
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Last I heard, Arjay, around 5 million people apply to immigrate into the "fascist" USA every year.

How many were trying to get into your former homeland?

If you hate westerners so much, how come all you third worlders want to live with us?
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 9 January 2012 3:34:00 PM
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LEGO your comparative liberty/wealth analysis will not stand up to analysis when we look at the current deterioration in the West.The real decay has yet to be realised.

When Israel attacks Iran for no good reason one third of the world's oil supply will be cut.Some say the US wants this so the price of oil will prop up their $.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 6:34:07 AM
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Arjay,
There is nothing in the "contributions" of Lego, Ken H or Neutral that stand up to analysis. They are obviously impervious to rational thought or, heaven forbid, evidence, preferring instead to label all views with which they don't agree as "anti-American, Alice in Wonderland, left wing, or any epithet that stands in substitution for thought. Their nom de plumes appear regularly in the comment pages of OLO and their comments are always in the same vein.
It is too much to hope that they will go away, but you can always take the option of simply ignoring them. Life and time are too precious to try and engage their brains.
Posted by James O'Neill, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 9:53:24 AM
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The US is in decline, there's no doubt about that, economically and politically. It is however a country that continues to take itself, and its responsibilities to the rest of the world, seriously. Sure, it makes mistakes. And it is an unfortunate fact of life that a nation that is losing its grip is going to make an increasing number of them.

That being said, what would make a far more interesting article would be an analysis of a post-US world. Obviously, it is fashionable among a particular set to rubbish America, piously and self-righteously, at every opportunity.

But have they thought through any alternatives?

Let's for a moment take a couple of "what-ifs" on board, and assess the situation when - to paraphrase a previous Pres. - we don't have the US to kick around any longer.

As a first "what-if", in deference to Arjay's presence on the thread, let's assume Ron Paul becomes the next US President. For a start, all US troops would be pulled back inside the US borders. That would shut up the moaners that the US is a bully. And as Paul puts it, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101101555.html

Good luck with that.

That's Defense sorted. What about the economy? Paul will abolish the Fed, return the US to the gold standard, and cut taxes. Presumably he will also allow the Banking system to fail, as it inevitably would.

The US would rapidly become an international pariah, without a hope of exporting a single widget, thanks to the lack of capital and the massively increased costs of production. Its withdrawal from its overseas commitments would not only be extraordinarily expensive, but would - quite properly - make it the target of substantial economic repercussions. I suspect, for one, that Iran would be thrilled to be in a position to impose sanctions on America.

What a joyous day for Ahmadinejad that would be!

Such speculation/analysis would certainly make for a far more entertaining piece than this turgid offering.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 10 January 2012 9:55:01 AM
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