I'm glad that we agree on that at least, nicco.

>>yes, Pericles, she is suggesting that others might do as she has done.<<

And this was... raising five children.

But her solution - for others, not for herself - was...

"While I think a one-child policy is too radical, I believe that a fertility rate of 1.5 is not unreasonable, that is, half of couples having two children and the other half only having one."

My point, which you seem to have great difficulty understanding, is that this "solution" cannot be arrived at without some form of enforcement.

If, on the other hand, we are already well on our way to achieving the end result through the combination of education and additional material wealth, why on earth is there a need for the lecture? If it is going to happen in the natural course of events - which, by the way, is my assessment of the situation - articles like this are merely self-important posturing.

Which shall it be, do you think? Population control by enforcement, or by allowing the natural instincts of humans to manage their own affairs?

The ugly side, by the way, completely apart from the control-by-diktat issue, is that attitudes such as Ms Goldie's are a tacit encouragement to the xenophobes amongst us. Such as this earlier post on this very thread:

>>Until such time as our leaders cut immigration, we ought to increase our birthrate to ensure that the ethnic mix of Australia remains something that resemebles Australia rather than a balkanised, segregated mix of ethnic tensions. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that some immigrant groups are being taught by their leaders to increase their birthrate as a means to expand their power and influence in Australia.<<

Just an unintended consequence, I guess.

It's no business of any one but ME,ME,ME how many children I have. And I will have THEM till the last tree in the last forest on Earth is felled. Till the last whale is blubbered and the last fish is long-line hauled. And who needs a silly old Barrier Reef that is fatally poisoned by Sugar farmers anyhow.

Its NOT OUR FAULT. WE in the west are reducing our fertility rates even if I am up to my seventh. God only knows I need the $Child Endowments. So we are more intelligent and can afford to have more kids.

The FAULT is the developing countries who have NO right to keep having 75million babies every year, stuffing up the climate and precipitating WARS. I and most Aussie women are better than they are! We are first world citizens for God's sake!

So if you want to save the planet from overpopulation deal with all those low lifers in africa and asia and Sth america etc and stop telling us we have to only have 1.5 children. A woman just can't make a realistic life on that child allowance.

Besides, we will get our men all steamed up and they'll fight for us to get our way ... so THERE!

Yours Sincerely

A. Woman.

Pericles,

It might make a refreshing change and possibly even give you more credibility to play the ball instead of the man (or the woman in this case).

It is amusing to read posts from libertarians who are exquisitely sensitive to political coercion, but completely blind to economic coercion. Similarly, you are concerned about the slightest infringements on people's right to procreate, but ignore government coercion when it is used to boost population. You and I are not given a choice about whether our taxes should pay for the Baby Bonus or Large Family Supplement. Due to "bipartisanship", we are not given any choice about the our very high migrant intake, even though each new migrant will immediately require hundreds of thousands of dollars in infrastructure which must be paid for from the taxes of existing residents or by reducing the resources that are allocated to them.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/39930.html

On payback time in the UK:

http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/6869/1/MPRA_paper_6869.pdf

In pioneer days in the US and Australia, there were enormous resources per person, but people were too few to make effective use of them. Subsidising population growth really was in the interests of the whole population under those conditions, but those days are long gone. From the latest Productivity Commission annual report:

"Two benefits that are sometimes attributed to immigration, despite
mixed or poor evidence to support them, are that:
* immigration is an important driver of per capita economic growth
* immigration could alleviate the problem of population ageing."

Dare I suggest, like Yabby, that you don't have a God-given right to procreate at someone else's expense or to live in someone else's country, using infrastructure and public services that they have paid for? Without violating anyone's rights, we could simply adopt a user pays policy towards procreation past the second child (apart from heavily means tested welfare payments), as suggested by Labor MP Kelvin Thomson. This would mean no Baby Bonus, no paid parental leave, and no other family payments for the additional child(ren).

<There simply is no humane way to control population. Because, as the author herself points out, there are these things called "maternal urgings" on the female side (I'm not quite sure what the male equivalent phrase is, but it is far more direct, and somewhat indifferent), the only viable control methods involve coercion.>

False. In fact, populations have a natural tendency to stabilise when voluntary birth control is made available, as evidenced by this UN report:

http://www.ehow.com/how_7528762_assess-family-planning-clinics.html

<The demand for voluntary family planning, a recognized human right, is global and rapidly growing. UNFPA, the United Nations Population Fund, estimates that 200 million women, mostly in the developing world, want but lack access to modern, effective family planning methods.>

The real coercion in the population debate is in the denial of birth control to those who want it, but who cannot afford it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15822637

We have been below replacment fertility for over 34 years now. Really, people should understand our demographic momentum, more people living longer, before writing such uneducated articles.

Australia is NOT below replacment fertility.Further we have added 8 million people to this DESERT Island over 34 years. The Murray-Darling-Basin fiasco says it all.

Really, people should understand our demographic DISASTER. in the context of the GREEDY WOMEN and their "unequal-righted-children-BUSINESS" and MEN who can't get sex without becoming despotic, media & "Propaganda" controlling CEO's.

The 'momentum', more people living longer, is a FRAUD. Quality of that living is undermined by taxes. $100,000's infrastructure-costs that every Government-and-CEO-benefiting-immigrant is NOT paying!

Uneducated Pro-immigration and pro-OVERPOPULATION commentary is TREASON. Certain people should get a firm grip on themselves and realise THIS-IS-A-DEMOCRACY and EVERYONE(here)-COUNTS.

Australia is sick of the few GREEDY PIGS stealing the VOICES of the MANY, aided and abetted by a failed parliamentary system. Just read this New Year prognosis!

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/17-quotes-about-the-coming-global-financial-collapse-that-will-make-your-hair-stand-up

This article clearly demonstrates nothing short of a revolution in this country can save it from civil strife, caused by overpopulation, overimmigration and POOR LEADERSHIP. Ultimately this inherent weakness, this lack of true Aussie connected-to-the-land spirit, is making us fair game for those sterner minds in our region. This will soon lead to an ASIAN takeover initially with a loss of mining rights and eventually with dire consequences for what we understand the meaning of "AUSTRALIAN" to be.

Australia must STABILISE populations at current numbers and seek special drilling technologies to extract GEOTHERMAL energy up to 10 times current fossil fuel generating capacities to maintain its freedom in a globalised economy that is run by people who take risks and make failures that WE the people are always NOW being made to pay for.

Unlimited clean GEOTHERMAL energy is the key to independence and we don't have much time.

Two relevant facts about GEOTHERMAL energy

1. The energy within fossil fuels is more than 90% due to geothermal/tectonic energy enhancements

2. Hydrogen plasma drilling has not been used in Australian Geothermal experiments. Whatever the reason, and oil company collusion comes to mind, Australia must make plasma-drilling technology our OWN.