Good luck when the mineral deposits are just holes in the ground and the wheatbelt has turned to desert.

I think you should secede.

I'll give you 'til Tuesday to repay all the money from the Eastern states that has propped up WA before the recent mining boom.

What's that? Forgotten about it already? OK, I'll go easy on you. 6% interest, compounded over 100 years should be fair.

Next step is to use the Aus Government's ties to Isolate WA from the US and China, and then a military invasion. I'm sure you'll be happy to work in those mines for free, while paying off your debts.

Yes let them go. It is only a matter of time before the Mining boom goes bust. Then they will have trouble living their profligate lifestyle, of Swimming pools in every garden, Desal plants for water, Bigger and better freeways with the price of oil about to explode.
Yes they will manage very well in their self made desert working for their Chinese masters.

sure sounds fair, after you return all the money we paid propping up the industries in the east with tariffs etc.
price the so called benefit we got , at world market cost, not east australia costs, a quite different figure.
west australia made its money from the world market, with primary production, but had a domestic regulated cost of production imposed on it, a defacto subsidy.

as for the recent mining boom, it’s been going for years/decades and with world market costs applied to cost structure, WA has more then made its contribution to the national interests

As a matter of international law, the idea that secession requires the permission of the original state is not correct. If it was correct, obviously the USA would not exist. Australia and the US are party to UN treaties that declare the fundamental right of self-determination of peoples. This is the basis on which Australia supported e.g. the secession of East Timor.

So it's not true that the right of secession is a moot point.

Also, the argument that the Constitution doesn't permit it is rubbish. (It doesn't permit much of what the federal government does, but that doesn't stop them does it?) In 1900 when the Constitution was adopted, the voting population was about 3 million, of which women and blacks couldn't vote, and only a majority of the men voted for. So by what logic does a minority of the population in 1900 get to decide that a possibly larger number of future people are to be denied the same fundamental human right of self-determination of peoples, and freedom of political association, that the 1900 voters exercised in adopting the Constitution? Such arguments are only confused. They could only make sense if people were a kind of chattel owned by governments.

Interestingly enough, international law does not state how big a seceding group must be. What makes a secession result in a recognised state, as distinct from a group of people merely not obeying the law of the original state, is recognition of the seceded state by other recognised states.

Snake Hill Principality (Google it) is an example of a recently seceded state inside Australia, that is recognised by the US and Canadian etc. governments, and is in the process of seeking UN recognition.

Houllebecq is apparently arguing for the killing of people who disagree with his political opinion.

"As more people become aware of the positive effects of secession, let it not be said that it is an idea only supported by the 'loony right'."

Shhh, don't tell them that. Google searches for 'secession' and 'WA' are likely to lead to information about the glorious Principality of Hutt River - and once folk realise what a brilliant tax dodge secession is, everybody will want to be doing it, and where will that leave Australia?

I visited Hutt River Province a few years ago, thoroughly enjoyed my time there, meeting the prince himself while he was tending his gardens, before spending the night drinking VB around a campfire with non other than Sir Bazza himself. Best $20 I ever spent - and that was per night for our caravan.

Stezza, did that include the departure tax from Australia? Did you require an export license for the caravan?

Canberra would become a ghost town if WA went alone. It might not be a bad thing.

*OK, I'll go easy on you.*

Its not often that you get it all arseabout, Houllie, but this time
you did. As Dunart points out, WA has always been a globally
focussed state, which was forced to buy crappy, overpriced Eastern
States products for decades, to keep your factories going.

Without the West, 10% of people here generating 50% of the country's
exports, you guys would be a banana republic.

I like that idea Runner, then with a big fence, we could make Canberra the biggest detention centre for boat people ever. A few more months & we'll need one that size, or a housing project of similar size.

The thought of being sent to Canberra might just stop those pesky boats, particularly if Julia is still there. That should stop anyone.

Of course, if we give the west Christmas island when they go, they'll be the ones copping the flood of boaties, & we'll be home free. Loosing the cost of them should just about replace the wests income, wouldn't you think.

*Of course, if we give the west Christmas island when they go, they'll be the ones copping the flood of boaties, & we'll be home free*

Somehow I don't think so, Hasbeen. West Australians are far too
pragmatic for that.

Main thing is that you cop Bob Brown and Tassie, so we'll simply
change the rules and send them all there. I'm sure that Bob
is prepared to chop down a bit of rainforest to make space for them
all. I'm sure you will all be very happy :)

“We get stuck with the boat people”?
They come to australia to access the urban subsidy, no other reason.
All the west has to do, is globalise the urban domestic economy to the same degree as the agriculture/regional sector is globalised and hey presto, they will all head to the east coast again.
With no real secondary industry in the west, will be easy to do, as well as being non discriminatory to the regional areas.
Different regions, same trading rules.

"I visited Hutt River Province a few years ago, thoroughly enjoyed my time there, meeting the prince himself while he was tending his gardens, before spending the night drinking VB around a campfire with non other than Sir Bazza himself. Best $20 I ever spent - and that was per night for our caravan."

I am sick with envy. Except for the bit about VB, it's nasty stuff.

WmTrevor, No taxes/licences, although you could get your passport stamped (optional). It was basically a run down tourist destination. Still worth the visit.

Humphrey B. Flaubert, agreed about the VB, although with my home brew out and about $50 per carton for quality beer, my options were limited. On a student budget and had a great time all the way up the coast from perth and through the middle to Melbourne. Will go around the other way next time, perhaps visiting some of the other micronations.

I wonder why Australia has a disproportionate number of established micronations. Are we secessionists by nature? I would like to think so, but based on the lack of an Australian republic and the ever increasing (accepted) government regulation of our lives, perhaps not.

What about the things that really matter?

An improved quality of life and environment, undertaken in a manner that gives us a vibrant sustainable society.

Would the secession of WA achieve this or help them move in that direction?

Um….no.

I find it amazing that the author could write an article specifically about the advantages of WA secession without even bearing a thought for these parameters!

Sukrit Sabhlok writes:

<< … worsening economic conditions have in recent years re-ignited the debate over secession. >>

But he doesn’t give us any idea of how economic conditions would improve in WA after secession. We are just left to assume that if the wealth from the Pilbara and NW Shelf was kept in WA, the place would be considerably better off, all else being equal.

Surely we need to know what the real economic advantages… and resultant quality of life advantages, might be.

<< In general, secession can be expected to result in less internal conflict within the state that has seceded. >>

Possibly. Although there is plenty of discontent in northern WA about their state government being so far away in Perth. In fact (and the same thing applies in my part of the world – north Queensland regarding Brisbane) this is much more significant than the feeling of distance from the Federal seat of power.

While internal discontent might be eased, rivalry and conflict between two countries on this continent could well and truly outweigh it, especially if Westralia showed significant increasing wealth while Eastralia went into decline.

There is only one scenario under which I would support secession:

If WA was to elect a sustainability-oriented government, which desired to greatly reduce population growth, improve wealth distribution and do whatever it could to wean society off of its addiction to oil, and if this was prevented or severely hampered by a manic pro-growth, antisustainability Federal government, then it should secede.

Then after it has proven itself, and Eastralia has elected a leader with the same sort of political doctrine, it should uncecede!

There seems to be a universal law of federations-- when a province or state experiences a boom, the local plutocrats promote the idea of secession, presumably with the notion that they'll be even richer without that interfering federal government. Strange, how, even though WA voted to secede before WW2, West Australians seemed to have forgotten all about it during the war.

6 months after secession, WA would be run by Chinese corporations and a local comprador class, I wonder how West Australians would adapt to Chinese work practices.

*West Australians seemed to have forgotten all about it during the war.*

Ah come on Mac. You don't seriously think that our 3 paper planes and
4 canoes, could defend the whole of Australia against any serious
army, do you? Far more likely they would be defeated by zillions
of bushflies crawling all over them, once they hit the real outback.

I really can't see why Chinese corporations would run anything.
When it comes to management, I remind you that it was an old farmers
coop from WA which eventually bought Coles, to teach you blokes how
to run it. Wesfarmers, you might have heard of the name.

well said yabby

A better idea, draw a line of latitude just above Perth, create a separate state to the south of that line and let it secede. Join the new top bit to NT and make that a state as well. The "stuff" being mined is mostly being ripped from other areas of the state to feather the nest of those mostly living in Perth.

Those in Sou. West WA complaining of propping up the East engage in the very same behaviour they complain the Eastern states engage in, talk about cognitive dissonance.

Perhaps we should look to investigate the German idea of liquid democracy. I don't support any party en toto but I do support some ideas from every party and would like to vote that way. Our model is 100's of years old and as mentioned elsewhere, no longer reflective of a modern day Aus, where education, literacy and communication are much more ubiquitous.

Another idea might be to dissolve the states and the councils, strip some powers from the Federal lunatics (as well as dissolve the Senate), make smaller, powerful jurisdictions that take on the role of council and state and make them approachable.

Yabby,

No, my point was that foreign corporations would buy the state after 'independence' and run it, in cooperation with the local billionaires, on the Latin American/African model. After 20 years of pillage Oz would be faced with a Third World basket case on its Western border. I'm not sure that invasions, bushflies or Westfarmers(petty cash to the average US or Chinese corporation) have any relevance.

If a majority of Ausralians in a majority of states agree to WA's secession, good luck and 'hasta luego'.

Mac, you sound like some misogynistic husband, telling his bride that
she could not cope without him. Perhaps you are just nervous of
what you would do without WA, for frankly it would be "banana republic
here we come" Shuffling paper in Canberra is not going to pay
your global bills, I am afraid.

The WA economy has always been focussed globally. In the past,
we've just been stuck with overpriced ES inputs and regulations.
Personally I think we'd thrive without you.

Yabby,

I'm sure the trans-national corporations would thrive without the federal government and, as I wrote earlier, the local compradors would do very well indeed. Mines, once established, employ very little labour, so, I'm sceptical as to the efficiency of the long term 'trickle down effect' for most West Australians when most of the profits are repatriated.

Possibly the rest of Oz could be better off without WA and the resultant 'Dutch Disease' caused by the mining boom. Our dollar would depreciate and Australians would have to actually manufacture goods for export, like any other First World nation and we'd be free of the 'Lucky Country' syndrome.

You are correct on one point, Mac. It would do the Eastern States
a great deal of good, to have to adjust to the realities of the real
world, with nothing but the Eastern Australian peso to support it.
Boy would you kids grow up quick!

Unlike yourself, we generally don't have a hatred for corportations
and billionaires, we'd just make sure that they paid tax here, for
all our benefit.Right now it all goes to Canberra, for err admiministration and such like.

Miners don't need to employ lots of people. They employ contractors
who employ lots of people and provide lots of services. A good chunk
of the State has not even seen a drill hole, so it yet remains to be
seen what remains to be discovered.

At present, offshore gas royalties go to Canberra, WA wears the
onshore infrastructure costs. That would all change.

Then of course our WA agriculture is highly competitive and with no
Joe Ludwig to damage it like he did with the Indonesia fiasco, it
would thrive even more.

Interestingly the State does have a number of globally competitive
manufacturing industries. From Matrix Composites to ferries built
in Fremantle, to half million $ airseeder rigs being exported, they
would thrive without all the red tape and associated costs.

Frankly I can't think of anything that we actually need from the East.

We could even ditch all those 60 year old out of date UN Conventions
which no Eastern States politician has the testicles to challenge
and reform. Wow, lets do it!

So why stop at WA?
the dividing line between WA and the rest of the country is just that; an arbitrary line drawn on a map.
Why not have the Pilbarra secede? With a population of only around 50,000, and an export income of about 26 billion in iron ore alone, why do they need the rest of WA, much less Oz? That's an average per capita income of over 500,000, or about $10k a week, compared to $500 in WA, or $466 for the rest of us.
Of course, in 50 or 60 years time when the ore runs out... But hey, it'll be a great 50 or 60 years, right? I mean, no one on these pages would ever suggest there's anything wrong with hitching your star to a centrally planned socialist economy would they? Surely no one around here would ever suggest that such an economy is inevitably doomed to crash and burn, leaving their suppliers high and dry would they?
But why does it have to depend on geography? After all, 90% of the (arbitrarily defined) state's income (about 61 billion) came from just 75,000 workers.
Why should they prop up all the other bludgers in WA?
There's just so very many ways we can divide the pie, aren't there.
And the arguments about who 'deserves' the biggest pieces will never end.

A great idea , in fact why not let regional australia secede from urban australia. I always hear how we are draw on the urban community as we, according to the urban peoples, need many subsidy’s, , phone, agriculture, water, electricity, extra health and welfare.
Have a free trade agreement between the two “states” and a tax system that taxes the wealth where it is consumed. This mean urban living people, that work in the regional areas will have to pay income tax on their income before taking it to the urban areas/city’s.
Along with the royalties the regions get to keep, I think any reasonable govt can invest in the future so that when the mines do get mined out, there is some new wealth source to live on.
Investing in agriculture would be a good start, as many overseas investors are already.(we are selling our food security to them, but that’s another debate)
With this happening, regional australia will have great economic warning that spending all our wealth on subsidised wealth consumption will fail as we watch over that “line” as the urban communities struggle with a no wealth creation economy.
Bring it on!

Because we are AUSTRALIA not the USA that is so buggered up. Their Constitution is fine, but fools treat it with utter contempt.
W A is part of this Nation.Even the rabbit-proof-fence failed so do read some historical fast please author.
The past is just that...PAST...over and done with ok. Fact is the Libs don't care and if they went ti all alone, have no man power to even cover the entire coast-line of W A to protect it. As for China leave well alone and learn.
From the timbers of the South West to the minerala and deserts of WA where on Earth do you think they would do for Health, Legal Systems and Border Protection?.Just what will happen to inter-state freight..flights or rail or road or sea? Who just will lay claim to ownership of air-space or sea space? What a stuipid silly notion.
Please think.

It's sad what dreams of money can do. Self-delusion is the first symptom.

"But worsening economic conditions have in recent years re-ignited the debate over secession."

C'mon, be honest Mr Sabhlok.

It's the thought of all that loot being dug up and exported that gets those secessionist juices running, ain't it? Not "worsening economic conditions", more like the expediency of self-interest. Ugly, but inevitable in a country that has decided that money is the primary determining factor of goodness and virtue.

Personally, I think it would be a great experiment. But I would counsel the sandgropers to find an astute minister of finance, one who understands the impact of mineral wealth on a small population. In particular, one who has taken on board the lessons of the oil-producing countries of the Middle East, who had to cope with the international re-pricing of their raw material. Twice. In the same decade. From $3 a barrel in 1973 to $80 in 1979.

Saudi Arabia is a great example. Of its current labour force of 7.3 million, 80% are non-nationals. Ring any bells, Yabby?

>>Miners don't need to employ lots of people. They employ contractors who employ lots of people and provide lots of services.<<

The UAE is another. Population 5.1 million. Workforce 3.7 million, of which 85% are expatriate. Only half a million locals have a job - how good is that. Dubai would seem to be a useful role-model for Perth too, I reckon.

Yup. Best of luck to youse all in newly-minted Westralia. There will be more economic pitfalls than most people think, especially those who think that turning mines into money-for-all is a doddle. I suspect inflation - the sort caused by too much money chasing too few goods - would be an early challenge. The allocation of capital to new projects might also assume a different profile, given the relative instability of a 2.3 million population in an already over-stretched service infrastructure.

But go for it, I say. Should be fun to watch.

*Saudi Arabia is a great example. Of its current labour force of 7.3 million, 80% are non-nationals. Ring any bells, Yabby?*

Not really Pericles, as the culture is quite different. Many Saudis
see it as below them, to do any kind of menial work. OTOH the last
survey I read, West Australians actually work more then people in
other states.

You probably don't know much about the place, like most Easterners.
All I can tell you is of my experience, given 35 or so years of living
here. WA is very much a can-do State. Because so much of our trade
is focussed on exports, its how people think. Personally I actually
prefer small democracies to large ones. If I have a solid case and
want to see change happen, that means that I can get to talk to the
decision makers and bring about change. Once it becomes federal, its
another whole layer of politics and administration and the East really
does not care what happens in the West, as long as we send you money.

Many West Australians are pissed off right now, at just being treated
as a cash cow. I think the GST division has something to do with it.
In NSW you get back well over 90%. In WA its 70%, heading for 30something %.
Yet being a young state, we have a lot of catching up
to do with infrastructure etc. Also a large State, covering a third
of Australia. That means alot of roads need building etc, to cope with
mining expansion.

So when it comes to the expediency of self interest and rule by
tyranny of the majority, the East is a prime example of it. Eventually people
in the West will get sick of being shafted by the
East. I don't blame them

I'd be interested to see that, Yabby, if you happen to have it handy.

>>OTOH the last survey I read, West Australians actually work more then people in other states.<<

It seems such a... broad claim, really. Do you mean "more hours"? Or "more effectively". Perhaps "more efficiently? Whichever, I'd love to see the metric used.

But this is a poor assumption.

>>You probably don't know much about the place, like most Easterners<<

I have lived and worked in WA, and enjoyed myself there immensely. Perth is a great place to raise kids, and the weather there is just amazing.

I am also very familiar with the über-parochialism that is manifest there, in every aspect of business life. I must confess, I never found it particularly convincing - it seemed more a form of penis-envy than anything substantial.

But, chacun à son goût as they say.

I'm serious about the secession, incidentally. It would be a great exercise in "true" democracy, and an object lesson in what government is like when guided by the uninformed desires of the masses. Above all, it would cause little harm to anyone outside WA.

Enjoy.

*I have lived and worked in WA, and enjoyed myself there immensely*

In that case I will certainly apologise for by flawed assumption,
Pericles. How interesting and rather rare. So many in the East,
simply don't have a clue about the West.

As to the survey, it was one of those news items quoted just
a few weeks ago. Even our Premier has been quoting it but AFAIK
it was about hours worked per individual. I guess the mining
industry would push our figures up, as those guys make great money
but they also work extremely long hours.

*I'm serious about the secession, incidentally.*

Oh I completely agree with you. It would pose some novel challenges
and allow for some great solutions. Democracy in action would win
and people would have a larger say about their lives. It would
also do the Eastern States economy a great deal of good. A much
cheaper currency and they'd have to join the real world for solutions.

An entertaining exercise in drawing lines in the sand or is it building castles in the air?

>>A WA frontbencher has suggested WA should secede and ally itself with China and the US. Why not?<<

Indeed. Why not back the concept a little further in time and propose a boundary of 129°East latitude or earlier again at 135°E. As a name Dutch New Holland has a certain ring to it – gets rid of any pesky reference to Australia – and who knows, after the Netherlands and Portugal sort out any prior claim they feel they have you might even become a member of the EU.

Of course, if the French remember about Louis Francois Marie Aleno de Saint Alouam you've got an additional claimant – this one with nuclear weapons.

Oh well, it was good while it lasted…

The point is, Yabby, that it wouldn't end there.

>>Democracy in action would win and people would have a larger say about their lives. It would also do the Eastern States economy a great deal of good.<<

You fall into the age-old sandgroper trap of lumping the whole of the rest of Australia together as "the Eastern States".

Using the example set by WA, I have no doubt that Queensland would quickly follow their lead. NSW and Victoria would then rapidly divorce themselves from South Australia - such a massive drain on everything, economically and culturally - and the next thing you know, we are de-federated, and there is no longer a need to maintain the sheltered workshop in Canberra.

Tasmania and the ACT would probably form an economic union based upon basket-weaving, and proceed to live the lives of self-denial that they so fervently wish upon the rest of us. Melbourne and Sydney would resume their rivalry as to which is the more important business centre, which would promote a healthy return to entrepreneurship and enterprise efficiency. Providing, incidentally, much-needed financial expertise to the Big Industries in the West - you won't see the captains of industry uprooting themselves to Dalkeith any time soon.

It will be massively beneficial to all. Bring it on.

*The point is, Yabby, that it wouldn't end there.*

Its an interesting point Pericles, but I think it would be far
harder for the East to split, then say WA.

For a start we are geographically separated from you by a great big
desert. Then of course distance. From here to Sydney is not much
different then from here to Singapore. Then from a business persective,
our customers are in Asia, not in the East. So our
ties with Asia would grow further, diminish further with the East.

Yes, we could indeed hire talent as needed from the East, but just
as likely from Hong Kong or Singapore.

Unwinding the East would be far more difficult

Not convinced, Yabby.

>>Unwinding the East would be far more difficult... For a start we are geographically separated from you by a great big desert.<<

It has so very little to do with deserts, or even distance. We have a few deserts of our own "over East", for one thing. And Queensland has far less in common with Tasmania than it has with WA. Not to mention that the far closer proximity of a number of European countries has been no impediment to their separateness.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. In practical terms, we will watch closely to see how you untangle yourselves from the Canberra hydra. And once you've led the way, we'll be right behind you.

It will take some time, so I strongly suggest you start now.

*Not to mention that the far closer proximity of a number of European countries has been no impediment to their separateness.*

Yeah but they are split based on tribal lines, which involves things
like language, so quite different. Here we have a potpourri of nations
so its not the same issue as say Greeks versus Germans.

As for WA, lol, if it were up to me it would be easy, chop.

I havent seen a recent WA poll on going our own way, but there is
certainly rising discussion about it, as people are getting sick
of screwed by Canberra for no good reasons. As our GST returns
drop lower and lower, the howls will increase. If pushed too far,
the outcome could be interesting

As I said, why stop at WA?
Every argument advanced so far as to why WA doesn't need the rest of the continent could be applied just as readily to why the Pilbara doesn't need WA.
I fully agree that small democracies are 'more democratic'. This to me is an excellent argument as to why we should abolish the states altogether in favour of local governments. We are currently one of the most overrepresented countries in the world, and in the case of Qld at least, we pay Mayors and councillors dam' near as much money as our Representatives (in some cases, more).
There are many issues which could be much more efficiently and fairly addressed on a local level, than on a federal or even state level. Immigration, for one. There are many regional areas which would welcome immigrants -even boat people- with open arms. Unemployment is another. Banking could be another. We would be far better off with community credit unions instead of institutions 'to big, to be allowed to fail'.
Innovative? The argument so far has been “let's change the name from State of Western Australia to Country of Western Australia, so we don't have to share”.
Yes, that's very innovative.
All over the world, countries with arbitrarily imposed imperial boundaries have been and are breaking up on the basis of culture, language or religion. The European experiment is breaking up largely through the failed naive idea that different cultures could share a common economy.
Are Westralians so different from other Australians? The ever narcissistic Yabby appears to think so, although even he had to admit that the mining industry may have skewed the figures somewhat.
I wonder how many of those 'hard working' sand gropers were the “real thing”? Is it possible many of the hardest working flew in from other states, or even (gasp!) other countries, and will happily return when their pockets are full?
Sadly, I very much doubt that the Westralians' greed and selfishness makes them so culturally different to the rest of us.

A great idea , in fact why not let regional australia secede from urban australia. I always hear how we are draw on the urban community as we, according to the urban peoples, need many subsidy’s, , phone, agriculture, water, electricity, extra health and welfare.
Have a free trade agreement between the two “states” and a tax system that taxes the wealth where it is consumed. This mean urban living people, that work in the regional areas will have to pay income tax on their income before taking it to the urban areas/city’s.
Along with the royalties the regions get to keep, I think any reasonable govt can invest in the future so that when the mines do get mined out, there is some new wealth source to live on.
Investing in agriculture would be a good start, as many overseas investors are already.(we are selling our food security to them, but that’s another debate)
With this happening, regional australia will have great economic warning about the policy of spending all our wealth on subsidised wealth consumption, (as the urban areas are doing)
watching over that “line” as the urban communities struggle with no wealth creation economy will be a are very sober warning indeed..
Bring it on!

This is not about regional areas now wanting to share their wealth. This is about regional’s areas choosing to give some of their wealth to the more needy, less well off.
At the moment the regions feel we are told to give to the “LESS NEEDY AND MORE WELL OFF”

*This to me is an excellent argument as to why we should abolish the states altogether in favour of local governments*

Well perhaps far easier to get rid of the most expendable first,
those who do least, which is Canberra. Let every State run their
own affairs and just get rid of the Federal Govt. We really don't
need Mr Rudd tripping around the world etc.

I agree with your Dunart, its the regions generating wealth to
keep the cities going. Thats perhaps why the royalties for regions
idea caught on in WA and it has made a difference. But now the Federal
Govt wants to ignore the constitution and do the plundering.