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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia going solar: gonna cost ya mate. > Comments

Australia going solar: gonna cost ya mate. : Comments

By John Daly, published 8/12/2011

Even if solar power gives Canberra sticker shock, it seems preferable to make local arrangements for more environmentally friendly fuels such as natural gas.

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oh dear the average Australian does not use 30Kw a day it's more like 4Kw. The problem is you Alan jones fans boys on the East coast. Using your blow dryers to put a wave through your perm.

Only right winger's creating strawmen are saying that solar alone can meet Australia's power needs.
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 8 December 2011 12:44:30 PM
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Global oil supply peaked in 2005-2006, marking the beginning of a tidal shift in the world’s economic trajectory. Petroleum is the most energy dense and most useful fuel source we’ve ever exploited, there is no replacement waiting to pick up its slack. When oil peaks it all peaks. Comparing other energy sources to oil is like comparing apples to orang-utans. It’s that different. At a vastly smaller scale, PV solar and wind might replace some coal use, but oil is responsible for virtually ALL of the world’s transportation, and the “replacement technologies” on offer, if we should give them even that much credit, are highly dependent on oil in the first place. Imagine the global economy without transportation fuel, or even with $5/litre fuel. How long would it take for it all to come to a grinding halt?

It is impossible to overemphasise [the energy problem’s] centrality. As long as there is enough primary energy at tolerable prices there is no reason to believe that bottlenecks in any other primary materials cannot be either broken or circumvented. On the other hand, a shortage of primary energy would mean that the demand for most other primary products would be so curtailed that a question of shortage with regard to them would be unlikely to arise.

With solar and wind power technologies obviously “secondary” instead of “primary energy”, secondary is obviously reliant on primary energy (notably oil). It should become considerably easier to understand why peak oil matters as much as it does. Coupling the shrinking global supply of the stuff with a rapidly rising global demand for it should give you the serious pause for thought. Alternative energy will be a luxury for those with foresight, not the basis of an emerging energy economy. In the end, its possible electricity will once again be a novelty, reserved for clever basement tinkerers, or those who have really valuable goods to trade for it. If nobody is manufacturing replacement parts for your washing machine, what’s the point really?
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 8 December 2011 12:45:24 PM
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Sorry Kenny. We use about 240 TWh per year for 22 million people (look it up on Google). That comes to 11,000 kWh per year per person = 30 kWh per day per person.

You may only use 4 kWh per day in your home but that is only a small part of total consumption. And, by the way, I am certainly no fan of Alan Jones!
Posted by Martin N, Thursday, 8 December 2011 1:04:58 PM
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Boy, oh boy, some fudging of figures and slight of hand, bundling industrial consumption together with household consumption to come up with 200 square metres of panels per household. Let's get real. Separate out industrial consumption, and home solar becomes manageable and affordable. Industrial consumption will require a far more high tech solution. $100 (or $500) billion are rubbery.

Wow, $100 billion painted as an impossibility? That's rich. What may be the average net assets of each Aus household, and the total Aus budget? A very solid set of figures I would suspect. So, with quite a modest subsidy from government every Aus household could have solar electric and solar hot water, and relevant coal fired demand cut to...? Minimal. How much was spent on the Education Revolution and Pink Batts? NBN, $57 billion? Given a vote, what do you think the Aus public would plump for?

A comprehensive conversion to gas for base load generation and transportation would be economical, and afford long term supply security, but diesel motors will probably require biodiesel. Oil imports cut to a minimum.

Solar concentrators and high tech heat sink facilities to meet peakload industrial demand will not be easy, but hopefully will become do-able. Coal exports can still boom, with much reduced domestic demand.

Not to reject wind, geothermal, hydro or wave, but what is needed is a start, and a fairdinkum setting of policy objectives. When we see what's happening in China, the pollution, the widespread health problems, the virtual enslavement of the poor, it becomes very clear that a start must be made on clean energy, a weaning off from oil, and a concerted effort on coal-burning particulate and CO2 sequestration, and offsets - but offsets aren't going to help those poor b's in China.

We can do with a lesser NBN, with fibre to node and fibre to essential services, hospitals, doctors, banking sector, universities and schools. The banks should be willing to contribute. Current home internet ain't so bad, in the scheme of things?

So, what are we waiting for?
Posted by Saltpetre, Thursday, 8 December 2011 1:12:10 PM
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Thanks John for the informative article and the link to that 'think tank' - I will read their paper.

They seem fixated on fossil fuels as does Curm - the 'can't do' it's too big to solve'; / 'cant provide base load' attitude. Obviously you either don't read or prefer to ignore the specialist renewables information blogs such as 'Climate Spectator'.

The price of solar PV is coming down very fast. Concentrated solar thermal tower molten salt storage technology is poised to do likewise; there are four, up to 20 MW capacity already operating commercially. Mirror technology is advancing rapidly bringing capital and maintenance cost of solar thermal intallations down. It wont be long before larger solar farms of hundreds of MW are in commercial operation. While capital cost is high there are no fuel costs - decades of power free from the vagaries of oil gas and coal prices and CO2 emissions.

Also the ASPI analysis appears to ignore climate change which amazing at it is the 'elephant in the room' which should be impossible to ignore. Forget the miserly cries of 'we're only 1% of emissions' etc. We are also (per capita)the world's biggest CO2 producers, among the wealthiest and also have the world's best solar resources. If that's not enough incentive to 'go for solar' I dont know what is!
Posted by Roses1, Thursday, 8 December 2011 1:30:44 PM
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'just around the corner' mantra
Prompete,
Well yeah, in Australia but if you check overseas sites you'll find that they're way ahead in that field.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 8 December 2011 5:07:42 PM
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