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The Forum > Article Comments > Without Greece there is no Western civilisation > Comments

Without Greece there is no Western civilisation : Comments

By Evaggelos Vallianatos, published 28/11/2011

Humiliating and punishing Greece by the West is matricide.

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The author also omits the other great influence on western civilisation. The Hebrews (mostly of the new testament)contributed to our justice system and it's forgiving nature. The Greeks mostly only contributed logic and reason.

Of course the reformation and the enlightenment were the greatest developments in western civilisation and they had no contribution from anyone other than westerners.

The Greeks are lost somewhere in their past and antiquated socialism.

They'll pay the price for trying to be modern western and antiquated socialist.
The two are incompatible.
Westernism is about individualism. Socialism, it's exact opposite, is about unworkable collectivism.
Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 28 November 2011 4:58:42 PM
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Xenophobic attacks on the Germans won't save Greece.

Many people's fears about Sydney becoming complacent after the 2000 olympics came true. It seems Greece has been suffering from this complacency since the original olympics.

How can you justify retiring at 55 years when the Germans (and us) retire at 67?

The author talks about Byzantium yet fails to address any of the Byzantine rules that got Greece into this mess. How about laws that allow single women to 'inherit' their father's pension if he dies? Even monks do dodgy deals in Greece.

Europe is going through upheaval because they think the world owes them a living. But the millions of people in China and through the developing world work much harder and for much less than spoilt Europeans.

Greeks are going to have to suck it up because it's only going to get worse. Nobody owes them anything.
Posted by dane, Monday, 28 November 2011 5:09:37 PM
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It's actually highly contentious to claim that The Ancient Greeks were the originators of the Western Enlightenment, or that it lifted the West our of barbarism. There's a wonderful essay by the celebrated philosopher Simon Critchley called "Black Socrates: Questioning the Philosophical Tradition" which suggests that, like most histories, the Western intellectual tradition is conceited crap, indeed elitist in its determined prehistory in the Greeks. It's only logical after all that the Greeks were drawing on yet earlier traditions, obviously the Egyptians and Mesopotamia for instance, and probably others so that Westernism is in fact hybridism--a melting pot of philosophical bastards.
The decidedly "modern" view of Western Philosophy as instituted in the Greeks is arguably part of a Eurocentric and imperialist, even racist genealogy--still hegemonic today--that was "confabulated" barely two centuries ago!
"Without Greece there is no Western Civilization" pshaw!
Without the sum total of human culture there is no Western Civilzation!

But even putting aside the conceit and effrontery of the ersatz Western tradition, I'm intrigued by the notion that we should "save" Greece; when Greece might (ironically) save us from barbarism, for real this time, by being the first to "fall" from the ghastly graces of the market monster we invented in the name of the Enlightenment!
Posted by Squeers, Monday, 28 November 2011 5:21:11 PM
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We's invented civilisation & youse owes US.

And ... We know where youse lives!
Posted by KAEP, Monday, 28 November 2011 5:25:12 PM
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There is barely any resemblance between Modern Greece and Ancient Greece. National Geo's genetic project - or the company associated with it - showed that only 30% of modern Greeks have a Y-DNA ancestor who was an Ancient Greek. I've lived in Greece and the Middle East (Lebanon & Egypt) and noticed something similar. The worship of Ancient Greece by Modern Greece is reminiscent of the way poor Islamic countries talk about their past. They both believe that they have been robbed by the west or the Ottomans of their heritage and place in the world; and this results in a victim mentality. I was in Greece when there was a blockade of Macedonia by them because they thought Macedonia was stealing their history - it really was insane. The writer reminded me of that attitude.
Posted by Stampy, Monday, 28 November 2011 7:27:33 PM
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Oh and please don't blame Greece's weapon acquisitions from Germany for your debt.

The submarine contract was 2 billion Euro. Greece's debt is 300 billion Euro - 150 times the cost of the submarine contract - which wasn't even fully paid - the company repossessed one of the subs.

The real culprit is the Greek public sector and the pensions that are better than Germany's
Posted by Stampy, Monday, 28 November 2011 7:33:52 PM
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