@pelican: That is poor show even for you.

I don't know about the "even for you" bit. There was a time when Pericles wasn't quite so easy to dismiss. But as you say the level of debate he stoops to in this area is definitely down there with the worst. There is no real attempt to persuade. It seem more like he is playing a game - who can paint the other in the blackest colours. Then again, perhaps he has always done that and I just didn't notice because he generally espoused viewpoints I agreed with.

@Divergence: The government is actually taking a larger share of GNP than it did in the 1970s, when tertiary education was free and the aged pension wasn't means tested.

Hmmm. That sounds bad at first, but then now that I think about it we are kids are spending longer in schools, there are simply more oldies about now and we spend more on health per capita than ever. It would be interesting to see it broken down.

Your link was pretty much spot, as usual. I think population growth is the real reason the treasury is dry (or in my states (Qld) case, projected to be $80B in the hole.) They are spending it on infrastructure. But then you have always have posted pretty good links.

I can't see any of this changing until people start dying in greater numbers, unfortunately. It is just too convenient, too easy, too profitable and just downright comfortable to continue in the current vein. People will have to genuinely scared before things change, and no one is going to be scared while times are so good the world population is growing exponentially. I am getting cynical in my old age, I guess. On the positive side if the food supply people are right that will happen in the next 20 years, but in most likely in other places in the world so the likes of Pericles can watch, and hopefully learn.

Well now I am feeling guilty about using personal terminology as well eg. "even for you". Apologies.

Maybe the warm weather is affecting everybody.

*Maybe the warm weather is affecting everybody.*

Perhaps its just hot flushes, Pelican :)

Heh heh Yabby - fact is there is probably some truth in that. :)

Pericles,

"only the rich can afford children, and how desperately unfair that is to the lil' Aussie Battler."

Sod the little Aussie Battler - they should get themselves a higher paying job, turn to crime, sell an organ on the black market or shut the phuck up and stop whining. Life is unfair.

"Simpler? Every government, regardless of its social engineering leanings, is dependent for its survival on the votes of the lil' Aussie Battlers (see above)."

The obvious consequence being that we end up with policy based not on reason but on populism. Any government would certainly win a lot of votes from the little Aussie Battlers if they were to abolish income tax for said Battlers - but that would that make it sound policy?

"But such a laissez-faire approach doesn't sound much like any population management programme I have ever heard of. Are you sure we are talking about the same thing?"

Turns out it's a moot point (note to self: this is why it pays to check your statistics before going off half-cocked). According to the ABS website, Australians are breeding below replacement rate anyway (go team!). So there's no need for a "population management programme" beyond an ecologically responsible immigration programme at present - there's no sense in fixing what isn't broken.

TAR. The "little Aussie battlers" don't always get what they voted for. At the moment I am thinking of the carbon tax, but there are no doubt many other examples. The government could control population increase by regulating immigration. This is not so simple though, because there are so many people coming in legally with visas and just overstaying. They are then difficult to remove.

See http://www.nationalobserver.net/2000_summer_ed2.htm

David