579,

"My info is the reactor that is shut down now will not be restarted, and replaced with alt; renewable energy. All reactors will be shut down by 2022, and replaced with alt renewable energy. There is no mention of burning coal for power."

That should be very amusing for the rest of us. Without coal or nuclear, they're going to run into some serious problems generating baseload power. It won't be so amusing for the Germans suffering constant blackouts. How appropriate that 'schadenfreude' is a German word.

579
Pardon me, but where have you been? Renewable energy is no where near developed enough to take over from nuclear or fossil fuel plants as such. It may be possible that they can reduce the operating time for those conventional plants, and that may save carbon, but that's about it. There has been talk of solar plants becoming reliable enough to develop base load power, but if you look again at the example always cited, a unit in Spain, its a pilot plant which the owners hope may work for 20 hours a day most days.

So if you want to include lots of renewables you have to design the network so that it can accommodate the intermittent nature of renewables. Nuclear plants are specifically base load. Varying their output once they are up and running is very difficult. Germany will have to replae them with conventional plants. They have no choice in the matter. That's why the decision is basically insane.

It is actually a bit of a joke. With the Greens holding the balance of power, Angela was forced into making this promise, with no action for a few years.

In a few years, the Greens will probably no longer hold the balance of power and this stupid promise can quietly be ditched, or postponed for a century or two.

Plantaganet, you haven't got the idea yet. The carbon tax is not about emissions, it is an excuse for raising enormous amounts of revenue with a new tax which avoids the odium of having to raise any of the old ones.

Renewable energy is a joke, to be fussed over by the chardonnay socialists. Just look at the costs (from the SMH):

Thorium nuclear about $50 per Mwh

Coal fired $79 per Mwh

Gas fired $97 per Mwh

Wind power $1400 per Mwh

Solar power $4000 per Mwh

Better to just turn off the electric heater and put on a jumper. I have used wood fires all winter, with no regard for CO2 emissions. The Chinese are developing thorium power at the moment after the yanks developed it in the seventies and then dropped it, as it didn't produce enough plutonium for their nuclear weapons.

Thanks Plerdsus

The Indians also are looking into thorium power - which may become a reality, in say 50 years, at present rate of international "progress"...

Meanwhile how does eveyone from Brisbane upward avoid getting heatstroke?

Put another way - jumpers are fine for the cold (where I also live) but how do the hot miners (and family) on which Australia relies stay cool?

Perhaps the starving billions could become Australia's first punkah wallahs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punkawallah - those that operate fans 'manually" with there hands or feet?

Planta

A bit of a mixed bag on the detail on new German Coal fired plants.
Some claims that they replace older plants with higher levels of CO2 output (but I'm not convinced). A fair bit of indication that they will need the plants to pick up slack from shutting down nuclear.

http://www.celsias.com/article/germanys-greens-criticise-government-over-new-coal/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304259304576375154034042070.html

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110713-36277.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,472786,00.html

R0bert