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The Forum > Article Comments > Why we go cross-eyed over Qantas > Comments

Why we go cross-eyed over Qantas : Comments

By Will Turner, published 11/11/2011

Why do we care so much about Qantas when it is a corporate minnow compared to other icons like BHP?

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"The Qantas story in 2011 is in many respects a microcosm of the global dynamics of our time: people and nations trying to make sense of and get ahead in a world that is unstable, hot and crowded"

Yes, it is seeing how our future will unfold, Fear used to divide us with false tales of greed made by those greedy for their own job security. It seems many think if the unions win in their push for job security, it will reduce the job security for them, so of course the unions are baddies. Qantas employees are too be the sacrificial lambs.

Smallish company, not performing very well paying CEO big boy western economy salary, wants all the benefits of Brand Australia, Australian safety reputation, Australian excellence and Australian rights but wants no Australian working full time on average wages. Countries like NZ who have made no contribution now earnng tax revenues that should be in our coffers.

If true that we cannot compete then lets all take a 20% pay drop, including execs as they are no Steve Jobs lets face it, or perhaps lets talk about mutual benefits. USA pays a lot to provide a brilliant staging post for the worlds greatest companies, yet they do not want to repay for that privilige, and so we see taxes avoided and the massive debt levels occur.

We cannot afford for long to provide first world business environment if they are to cherry pick and avoid social responsibilty and deny us a return on our collective investment.

And it will get worse, Qantas dispute is symbolic of the degradation of humans based on career choice and sold as globalisation and outsourcing. It is truly the worst of human traits, only one step from slavery but very much the exact same mindset. I do blame globalisation. No evidence it is good for anything.
Posted by TheMissus, Friday, 11 November 2011 8:57:16 AM
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I agree with much of what you TheMissus have to say. I think now is a really important time for us to be thinking about what globalisation means. I am intrigued by how the functioning of nation states that dominated the 20th century are changing today (especially debt problems on both sides of the Atlantic) and what this means for us in Australia. I'm also conscious that much of how our own society runs benefits too greatly at the expense of those in the third world.

I suppose this is all part of what engages me about the Qantas situation.
Posted by Will T, Friday, 11 November 2011 11:39:27 AM
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what globalisation means.
Will T,
globalisation doesn't actually mean anything, it's merely a term very conveniently used by money mongers to not describing themselves as greedy although they are very much so.
Business people make up only a fraction of them. Public servants & unionists take a lot more of our money than all others. combined
Posted by individual, Friday, 11 November 2011 1:17:05 PM
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We are all in control of our own destiny, however, if enough of us choose the cheapest deal we can find, a win for me at any cost, then we will all face the consequences of such actions.

I have been warning fo years that we are headed for bad times.

Unions and the government alike just keep pushing the increased costs of living onto th employers and many of them are now at breaking point.

As I have said before, Qantas is just the beginning, so brace yourselves.

As a business man for some 22 years, I can tell you it now sucks.

Th pendulum has swung and I seriously doubt it will swing back for a long time as the one thing we need more than anything else, is certainty, and that is simply not there.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 13 November 2011 8:21:28 AM
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Who cares if QANTAS folds?

Keating was very happy to sell it off, and punters bought shares hoping to make a killing for doing SFA for their lazy dollars tucked away into shares.

Australia has no right to regard is as anything other than another airline that is run badly.

If it folds, it folds.

It's not as if we get cutprice travel with them is it?

Who cares about QANTAS?

Are we to bleat when Toyota folds its car making here, because it is an 'Australian' company?

I hope not.

Maybe we should get the Chinese to buy it?
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 14 November 2011 10:00:09 AM
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*Who cares if QANTAS folds?*

Well TBC, it seems that the 35'000 employees care so much about
their cushy jobs, that they inadvertantly prepared to trash
the company to try and preserve them. That strategy is doomed
to failure, but union leaders are not known for intelligence.

*and punters bought shares hoping to make a killing for doing SFA for their lazy dollars tucked away into shares*

You mean those silly mums and dads who believed the Govt spin, when
it was flogged off. Commonly they are grey nomads commonly just
wanting a safe and regular return on their hard earned savings,
so that they can retire in tranquility. Not much different then
if you rent your house out, you'd expect a bit of rent.

Why would a 3-5% dividend on shares be any different to your
expectations that tenants in your house actually pay rent
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 14 November 2011 2:27:58 PM
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Well, if all that can be expected is 3-5% then it rather shows it's a foolish investment.

Yabby, you claim to be a business man/person do you not?

A safer and higher return can be had elsewhere, even in a cash management fund.

If that is all the return Joyce and his predecessor can muster, they hardly deserve to be paid, never mind paid a lot of money.

Was it govt spin Yabby, to say 'the market will prevail'?

I think not.

The market is prevailing, and it shows QANTAS to be a dead loss, run by a dead loss, with a dead loss board and probably not worth bothering with.

Are you suggesting some sort of socialist plot to keep the employees in jobs?

Not like you.

They can work for the next 'entrepreneur' on the block, surely?
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 14 November 2011 2:47:36 PM
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*Well, if all that can be expected is 3-5% then it rather shows it's a foolish investment.*

Not really TBC, for you won't get much more from the majority of
returns from companies. But companies do rise in value, along with
inflation. In that sense you can preserve the real value of your
savings, which is the major concern for most people.

Get 5% from your cash management fund, inflation takes 3-4%,
you pay the marginal rate of tax on the full 5%, you are in
real terms going backwards. Over 20 Years, you could have lost
a good deal of your savings.

*Was it govt spin Yabby, to say 'the market will prevail'?*

Is that what they wrote on the front page of the prospectus, TBC,
or lots of glossy pictures of Qantas planes and warm, smiling caring
staff and customers? Come on, they pushed every emotional button
to extract more money from the public.

*Are you suggesting some sort of socialist plot to keep the employees in jobs?*

The Fair Work Act was hardly written for the benefit of employers.
Fact is that the unions presently run the Govt and Sheldon, head
of the TWU, who held Qantas to ransom, could well soon be the leader
of the ALP. That is the reality of it.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 14 November 2011 3:30:36 PM
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I wonder Yabby that anyone bothers to invest at all in anything with the picture you paint.

So, where does all the profit come from that keep the grey gypos on the road consuming petrol and tyres from age 55 to death?

Or all those European trips the silver haired oldies take every year?

Really Yabby, I simply do not believe the disaster-like picture you paint.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 14 November 2011 4:44:41 PM
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*So, where does all the profit come from that keep the grey gypos on the road consuming petrol and tyres from age 55 to death?*

TBC, there are plenty of Australians who spend far less then they
earn. Plumbers, electricians, acccountants, teachers, who have
lived modestly for 45 years. I met another couple just yesterday
who were planning another cruise, as they so loved the last one.

They did mention that when they bought their house, they paid
just over 2000$ for it. Many are selling their expensive homes
in the cities, moving to cheaper areas, all profits tax free.
Along with their savings, their super etc, they can live pretty well.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 14 November 2011 5:06:38 PM
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Well there you go, buy property and forget QANTAS.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 14 November 2011 5:49:54 PM
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*Well there you go, buy property and forget QANTAS.*

Given that our property is now some of the most expensive in
the world, that might not be such a good idea either, for
its bound to crash one day.

Just remember what you learned as a kid. Like don't put all your
eggs in one basket. If if sounds too good to be true, it probably
is, etc.

In the longer term, people who have squirreled away a few bucks and
bought BHP, Woodside, Woolies, Wesfarmers, the banks, etc. have done ok. Nothing
magical, but steady as she goes. Thats much better then the
20 billion that Australians blow on the pokies etc, only then to
complain they got a real deal and would now prefer to bleed the
taxpayer.

Airlines will always be a high risk investment, I certainly would
not touch them. But I do feel some empathy for the mums and dads
who got shafted by the system, as our unions clearly think that
Qantas only exists for the benefit of its employees.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 14 November 2011 7:12:15 PM
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