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The Forum > Article Comments > The trend of destiny: The impossibility of population growth > Comments

The trend of destiny: The impossibility of population growth : Comments

By Michael Kile, published 31/10/2011

Population growth is not the best outcome for society or the planet.

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Jay,

White people partnering Third World governments is already widespread. It usually takes the form of the IMF, World Bank or WTO jumping into bed with a corrupt regime - further impoverishing the general population and degrading the environment while funnelling profits to the elite within developing countries and global corporate interests beyond its borders. (See Egypt's experience for just one example)
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 7:30:40 AM
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At least I provided a link, colinsett.

>>The Economist article of last week was a re-run of the one published in New Scientist of some months back. At least New Scientist has the fortitude to put the name of the author alongside that of the article, which was by the rusted-on mathematically-illiterate cornucopian Fred Pearce.<<

You probably are unaware that The Economist does not provide its reporters with bylines, as a matter of policy.

Any chance you could provide a link to Fred's article, so we can compare them?

Incidentally, which part of the Economist piece - or indeed Fred Pearce's - did you object to?
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 8:31:23 AM
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Simplistic mathematics and models appeals to the pro-Malthusian lobby. They see the world as equivalent to a drink container being gradually emptied until there is nothing left. A nice image, sure, but completely wrong. Energy cannot be destroyed only transferred. Matter is recycled. Some energy sources could be used up in time but there is practically infinite energy available particularly at the nuclear level.

Humans are a relatively MINOR user of resources compared to all the other creatures on the earth. There are 200 billion insects for every human also using resources every day. A single plague of lucusts can eat enough food for an average city in a day.

Latter day Malthusians like Ehrlich have proven embarrasingly wrong on numerous occasions.

Why aren't Malthusians worried about the use of resources by other species? Surely they are finite too?
Posted by Atman, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 12:24:46 PM
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Divergence, Michael_in_Adelaide, VK3AUU and KAEP

Again, all these arguments have been refuted long ago. Time for some basic reading people. The science fiction writers of the 1950s also forecast nighmare worlds of the 1980s where the resources were all exhausted, and they got around New York in canoes (Make Room! Make Room! Harry Harrison).

The interplay between productivity and technical innovation is quite complex but basically it doesn't depend on any one breakthrough or invention. If you can point to any fundamental issue I'd like to hear it. As far as I know, no one has been able to point at any probable limit, at least not with any authority.

For example, KAEP assertion that food production has peaked is straight nonsense, a repeat of online hysteria. One of the main points mentioned by commentators on current high food prices (and they are high) is the amount of crop land gone to biofuels. For the record the other major factor is higher demand because of more people coming out of poverty, into the middle class, notably in Asia.

Will those higher prices last? No. If you think there is a limit on supply then look at the history of agriculture in the EU and how subsidies caused vast over-production. VK3AUU should dump his simple arithmetic and start looking at trends in agricultural productivity.

The assertions about fertiliser are also straight nonsense. Although petroleum is used to make fertiliser - as far as I know - so is natural gas (the stuff can be made out of air - look it up) and gas reserves have been going through the roof of late. Fertiliser is also mined.

You'll have to do a lot better than these tired old arguments to get my attention. I'm not the one in denial, or refusing to listen.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 12:51:04 PM
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Curmy old chap, obviously you believe in alchemy. I wonder how you are going to make potash and phosphorus from natural gas. These two elements are also a necessary part of the fertilizer equation and as far as I know they are going to run out one day. Christmas Island and Nauru have both been mined out. Agriculture will be all organic with the consequence of yields being halved and ultimately, when all the nutrients in the soil have been used up, all our agricultural land will be reduced to a wasteland.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 1:15:17 PM
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Poirot,
There you go again, blaming White people for the ills of the world.
Leaving aside the fact that many of the leading figures in those criminal organisations aren't even White why do you judge us by the so called "one percent"?
Do you judge all Black people by the actions of Julius Malema, or Coral Watts?
White people are the solution not the problem.
As I said, Boomers and their acolytes are addicted to White guilt, fear and despair, they need them like they need oxygen.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 5:28:49 PM
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