http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12760#220783

Squeers, still waiting for a counter argument about "no absolutes", of course there are no complete absolute systems that guarantee everything, but there are some "absolutes".

EG, "thou shalt not kill" which is why we no longer have the death penalty in Australia, murder is never good, rarely ever justified satisfactorily & there is no colder, more calculated murder than an execution.

However this argument/principle is usually abused by the left, blown out of all proportion, used as an excuse to question/destroy everything they disagree with &/or find INconvenient at the time, including basic M & E such as the above issue.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12760#220781

Bugsy, thank you for proving my point. your post short, containing abusive language only, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sophistry without any rational debate or answering of simple questions in plain english.

My posts moderate, polite, well argued, simple questions asked & answered.

Formersnag,

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" may be seen as some sort of theoretical absolute, however, when applied in practical terms to the human condition, it's anything but. On the contrary, it seems that the history of mankind before and after Moses handed down this commandment is one long litany of debauchery and cold calculated savagery to "others" of the same species.

When a man with the power of George W. Bush can say (with a straight face) that God told him to invade Iraq, it does tend to make atheists shake their heads in dismay that so-called "absolutes" inscribed in the Bible seem to be disposable depending on the circumstances.

No Formersnag, not 'abusive' language, but rather 'dismissive' language.

I think that your last post was amusing though, nice use of the words 'polite', 'moderate' and 'well argued' in such an ironic context.

"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on."

Knowledge is the enemy of religion.

"God" is essentially a construct, employed to induce Man to be less of an animal and more of a responsible law-abiding member of a Human community. "Human", another construct, employed to categorise Man as "something special", beyond the beast, and to justify the application accordingly of higher ideals of behaviour - your morals and ethics - these same morals and ethics which do Not come from the application of reason alone, but from the reasoned application of laws, rules and codes which have been constructed to moderate behaviour and to induce the "internalisation" of what it means to be a "good" citizen.

We may choose to disbelieve in the material or supernatural existence of "God", but we should Not disregard the "pure" objectives and motivations behind the employment of such a guiding "force" in the advancement of "civilisation". The fact that "uncivilised" and inhumane conduct continues to prevail demonstrates the inability of reason alone to overcome Man's underlying "base" instincts. The "beast" still exists, and reason alone is unable to banish it.

The God of love, understanding and forgiveness, or the God of fire, brimstone and damnation - equally valid vectors in the construction and perceived reality of the universe - equally valid in the application of law to human behaviour.

For all the emphasis on the psyche and intelligence, Man is still an animal, and animals perceive their environment in "real" terms, and not some metaphysical construct. Objects and motives are equally real.

"Thow shallt not kill" means "without just cause", and arguments against capital punishment remain subjective and emotive, rather than objective and reasoned. For example, Gaddafy killed, and was justly executed - and what rational alternative is truly warranted or justifiable?

It is clear that "God" is still not universal in spirit.

Is the bible fact or fiction, it discredits itself by saying some stories here might not necessarily be true. God does not live in heaven or any where else, it has been the biggest con of all time. The catholics don't believe in contraception! doesn't that make religion rather hard to practice. The world would be a far better place with out religion. It worked in the days when there was no immigration, and no means of distance travel. Since then there has been conflict, between differing religions. It is time to say the use of religious belief has run its course.