Thanks Seneca.

Joe (Loudmouth), you make some great points and I find myself agreeing with you on a few things. I'm not Indigenous and I don't work in Indigenous affairs. I have some (white) friends who have done some work there and they tell me that the politics is pretty bitter.

These are good people who want to help. They're not motivated by the thought of getting rich at somebody else's expense. But, they didn't like the nastiness that they saw. Can you blame them? If you look at the bitterness and resentment in Dane's comments, it literally leaps off the screen, you can see why people don't want to get involved.

No doubt there are people who are trying to use benefits intended for disadvantaged Indigenous Australians for their own ends. Thats sad and it shouldn't happen. But, getting rid of that shouldn't mean tolerating racial vilification.

I don't think thats a sufficient response to do justice to the very considered points that you make. I respect where you're coming from but I don't know how to help. I'd love to see more Indigenous kids at university but they are getting lost along the way. I think now that perhaps they are being poorly taught. It would be disappointing to think that they might grow up being taught to resent the law, universities and the rest of the country.

Hasbeen, you don't know me or the work I do. So what you're saying is pretty much irrelevant. I never said academia was perfect and I can't answer for everybody and every university. So like I said; your comments are irrelevant.

Dane, I assume you don't have a PhD and have never worked in a university. But you'd like to right? Your comments on PhDs are way too pointed for my money.

Thanks David, yes, there are, or have been, some wonderful people working in Indigenous student support, and it doesn't matter whether they are Indigenous or not, dedication seems to know no colour. One non-Indigenous staff member worked for 26 years at the same Study Centre in a SA town, graduating some fifty people (one in every eight adults), never being promoted from Lecturer A but being named one year as the town's Citizen of the Year.

Of course, she had to be moved on by the Aboriginal alpha male boss (when it suits, they can trumpet about 'Indigenisation', and at other times, 'balance'), who put a relation in her place: I believe that there is now not one student enrolled, but that relation is still employed. Probably with a car supplied. And petrol.

In fact, I have never worked for an Aboriginal boss who wasn't an alpha male: usually they were incompetent, bullying to the point of being psychotic, concerned only with their own career, and shallowly 'radical' but really quite racist (for example, pushing theories of 'different learning styles', and/or trying to restrict Aboriginal students to 'Black' uni courses). Conversely, my wife Maria was renowned as a well-loved and respected manager in student support, someone who stood up to the 'superior' Ab Studies/Aust Studies teaching staff and protected her staff and budget as much as she could. So of course, she had to go, Aboriginal or not, permanent or not, after 28 years at the uni.

Meanwhile, others gain Aboriginal professorships after five or ten years, thanks to their handlers. Aboriginal academics walk a tight-rope: fall out with the handlers and you're gone. So you have to a keen ability to read signs, never mind your job description: to them that hath, shall it be given.

Yes, Aboriginal politics at universities is often filthy dirty. It's amazing, in the face of all manner of organisational racism, that so many Indigenous students still get through, a tribute to the courage and dedication of student support staff, Indigenous and non-Indigenous.

Joe

David,

It hard to debate with you. You vacillate between spoofing and arrogance. If I comment will you reply with a civil war reference or will you arrogantly dismiss comments you don't like as irrelevant?

It was nice to see you admit that there are people who misuse benefits. Must have been hard. But at least you made amends with a proclamation about not tolerating racial vilification. I bet that made you feel better.

You may never have said academia was perfect, but you have defended an indefensible ruling. You have focused on a myopic point of law that the majority of people regard as illegitimate, rather than looking at the outcome for society and indigenous people. That is evidence of an out of touch academic par exellence. To then insist that this is about vilification ad nauseam, when it is nothing of the sort, goes well beyond just out of touch. You are now treating ordinary people as fools. The smugness about PhD's, academics and all that just adds contempt into bargain.

Thank you for your assertions about me wanting a PhD though. As you might have said, how would you know? (sorry - you did say that, didn't you). But seriously, you know me better than I know myself. I'm thinking of writing my dissertation on the impact of climate change on racial vilification in schools. What do think - would I get funding?

Dane,

re your last post.

Hear! Hear!

Joe you really should write up your experiences as a longer piece. I think it'd strike a chord with a lot of people. Obviously Indigenous affairs has some serious issues but there are good people trying hard. Unfortunately, a lot of people with dubious motives and intentions probably push themselves ahead there. Its true in most organisations and corporations so there is no reason for Indigenous affairs to be greatly different. The point about professorships might be true in some cases. Its just that talking about specific people is tricky where defamation is concerned. But, don't think its escaped anybody's attention that there are some very unqualified people in high appointments. Thats what happens when political croneyisms gets into statutory organisations. Its not a problems thats confined to Indigenous affairs.

Dane, you used the term 'carpet baggers'. I just assumed that you knew what it meant. You brought up PhDs. I didn't. The way you've gone on about it is very pointed. Thats just my observations of your behaviour. You insisted on talking about Indigenous affairs. I pointed out that the case was about racial vilification. You've suggested that its a 'myopic point of law' and that the ruling is indefensible. The whole case was about racial vilification. Every single paragraph.

It definitely wasn't hard to suggest that some people might be misusing benefits.

David, you're right, Indigenous affairs is not much different from any other sphere, in that corruption, psychotics in suits, incompetence and opportunism are rife. Yes, there are (or certainly used to be) wonderful, courageous people dedicating their lives and careers to the defence of Indigenous people. And sooner or later, they will win through, I'm convinced of that.

What inspires me about thousands of Indigenous graduates is the certainty that only a handful can be co-opted into the patronage system - the great majority must find their way through standard career pathways into the work-force. There are many obstacles in their way and non-Indigenous powers still prefer 'their' Indigenous people to be unqualified and pliable. Non-Indigenous control is still the game. As the first Indigenous conservation manager joked once with me, there is a hierarchy in states' parks and wildlife services in relation to Indigenous employment (and probably in many other fields as well):

* Qualified non-Indigenous staff, managers, who can work anywhere in their state;

* Unqualified non-Indigenous staff, parj rangers, who can work anywhere in their state;

* Unqualified Indigenous staff, who can work in their traditional areas;

* Qualified indigenous staff, who can work in their traditional areas, if vacancies can be found.

In other words, most Indigenous people get penalised for graduating. Only a handful of the elite are entitled to that privilege, those who know best how to work with non-Indigenous powers.

But more and more are doing so, in the thousands. The days of the elite on one side, and the unqualified Jackys on the other, are coming to an end, I fervently hope. Sooner or later, Indigenous people will be rewarded for their genuine skills, not for sucking up, not for their assumed ability to keep their peeeople in line, on behalf of white professionals. Sooner or later, people will be allowed to work fully and freely to their expertise. That's when we might start to see some genuine self-determination.

Joe Lane