Yabby,
Having worked on SCADA systems for about 10 years, I know that there is a limit to how much productivity can be wrung from automation.

In fact, automation can be so difficult to achieve for some tasks, that automation can actually cost more than manual operation.

Productivity is like squeezing the juice from an orange. The more juice squeezed, the more difficult it becomes to squeeze any more juice.

I don’t think anyone is against trade, but trade does have to be properly managed or there are long term consequences, and we shouldn’t be throwing off all regulation and trading with just anyone.

But I would agree with you on some points.

We are increasingly becoming an obese, feminist, cultureless and consumerist society, that has little or no pride, and is now willing to sell the country off to the highest bidder

OK, Bazz, vanna and Yabby, we have had lots about the pro's and con's of free trade, and pretty well have to accept that Oz is not an island as far as the import/export facts of life are concerned, but the question I have is this - is Oz doing it right, or do you have any suggestions as to how we might do it better?

In one area I have great concern, and that is I am a firm believer in not selling off the farm to meet the bills. I wish I could also extend this to include our natural resources - mining etc - meaning that I would hope we could maintain maximum Oz interest in these resources so that the product would be almost totally Australian, as far as royalties and returns are concerned. Question is, am I dreaming in these interests?

My thought is that if we sell off the farm, then we lose our future as an independent nation.

Your thoughts?

Saltpeter,
I can’t speak for Yabby, as he seems to want to do it with anyone.

Instead of free trade, there can be co-operative trade between chosen countries.

It does require considerable diplomacy, and quite a lot of co-operation and democracy.

Countries are chosen, and the criteria is not just the price of products, and there can be a limit on what is traded with each country.

For example: If it is decided that a particular country is not harvesting timber sustainably, then no timber is imported from that country, and attention is applied to make the timber industry in this country sustainable.

Quite a lot of good government is required, and quite a lot of co-operation is required between trading countries, but ultimately there is no alternative.

*I know that there is a limit to how much productivity can be wrung from automation.*

Rather then you Vanna, I'll take note of what some of the world's
leading companies are doing. John Deere, Mercedes, BMW etc, all
using automation to improve both quality and cost and production.

In Australia, the meat industry is finally catching on. Results have
been amazing, but no, its never easy, I know. The world is more
complicated, for that we need to train more skilled people, or we'll
simply be left behind.

But there are good reasons why today you can buy an Australian made
fridge, for no more $ then you paid in the 80s, despite inflation
and your wages rocketing in that time. It used to take 3 weeks wages to
afford a fridge, now it takes half a week. Thank automation.

*meaning that I would hope we could maintain maximum Oz interest in these resources so that the product would be almost totally Australian*

Salpetre, so buy some shares in BHP. They will send you a dividend
cheque every 6 months. Already half a million Aussies get one. If
more did, rather then blow 20 billion $ on gambling, both Australia
and you would be better off.

Vanna seems to like controlling things in his life, but I have yet
to see where these smart public servants are, who are going to make
the wise decisions and do the controlling. Personally I'm not
a control freak and wishful thinking does not work so well

Yabby,
Well I was actually involved in writing the code for various SCADA systems, and no matter how good the SCADA system, it relies on field equipment and instrumentation, and if the field equipment and instrumentation is not reliable enough, no computer will help, (and only certain things can be measured with instrumentation BTW).

There are quality control measures applied for manufactured goods, (even for coal), but the future is for an extra measure or requirement, that is, sustainability.

If an exporter wants to export something, they will have to show that their product meets quality criteria, and also meets sustainability criteria. Countries would also co-operate to ensure products being bought and sold are sustainable.

So instead of "free trade" agreements where anything goes and damn the consequences, there are more dignified and civilised "co-operative trade" agreements between selected countries.

Only the unwise would be accepting a trade deal when the item being imported is not sustainable.

And of course the Yabbies of this world would not be just interested in short term prices, and how much they could get in the shortest possible time.

*If an exporter wants to export something, they will have to show that their product meets quality criteria, and also meets sustainability criteria.*

That's interesting Vanna, discriminate against exporters. I would
have thought that laws should apply equally, if products are
exported or not.

Australia is free to negotiate whatever free trade agreements that
it likes. But sometimes we are just not very good negotiators,
because some trade agreements also apply all sorts of restrictive
clauses.

Yes indeed, only some things can be measured, but that does not
mean that automation in manufacture is not going ahead on a large
scale. I was flipping channels last night and thought of you.
The National Geographic Channel was showing a rerun of Ikea production
methods in Sweden. It showed the company which makes their Billy
bookcase and has been doing so for 40 years, with over 40 million
units sold globally. Its a near totally automated operation and
if they can manufacture bookcases and market them globally from
Sweden, then clearly there is still plenty of scope in manufacture,
for those with ability.