addition

On another more relevant subject.

I don't buy the argument that because people are going through a crisis or are bored, that it should be condoned that they be able to smoke and utilise pathological coping mechanisms. It is well known that addictive behaviour of all kinds usually can’t change until the addicted person reaches the metaphorical "rock bottom" and see in them selves the need to change.

In my years of working in different mental health settings I have seen cigarettes become such a prized commodity that vulnerable people have done distressing things to gain the favour of people with the cigarettes. This has included but has not been limited to threats of violence, extortion and prostitution.

Mental health facilities should be a asylums (a place of sanctuary) that provide a safe place in which people can develop a healthy response to the trial tribulations of their lives

Well now Gadphli I can see the probable reason that mental institutions are so notoriously incompetent at the job they are supposed to do.

It would appear they are staffed by little dictators, who have a know all attitude, & are not interested in listening to anyone who might have a suggestion.

Considering the high failure rate in the treatment of mental patients, a change of attitude would be in order. Something a little less smug & self satisfied would be more useful I would think.

I am in 100% agreement with Rebekah Bedoe's arttcle on smoking for psychiatric patients. To force smokers to give up their best anti-anxiety tool is (pardon me) insane in a mental health treatment setting. I say this as a three-time resident of a mental hospital. Without outside privileges (for example, after an involuntary admittance) a patient is not allowed outside to smoke at all. I agree with Rebekah that this is an unnecessary hardship at such a time - the time to quit is when the moods are stable and the psychoses are under control. And if nurses find there is violence over cigarettes, I suggest they abandon their monomaniacal obsession with "control" and start treating patients with respect for their own individuality - that would solve a multiplicity of trouble for everyone!

Wow Hasbeen,

How have you managed to get that many logical fallacy's into one post?

1. An Ad hominem agument and a non sequitur
"Well now Gadphli I can see the probable reason that mental institutions are so notoriously incompetent at the job they are supposed to do."

2. An Association fallacy and more specifically Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

"It would appear they are staffed by little dictators, who have a know all attitude, & are not interested in listening to anyone who might have a suggestion."

3. Combination of a Non-Sequitur, Post-hoc ergo propter hoc and an Ad hominem attack.

"Considering the high failure rate in the treatment of mental patients, a change of attitude would be in order. Something a little less smug & self satisfied would be more useful I would think."

I think this debate/ argument would be best served within the realms of logic. I am always happy to listen and evaluate suggestions people might have.

I will employ my best logic and reason to evaluate the claims and then dispute or endorse those claims with a logical and reasonable response.

All I ask is the same. Attack my argument all you like with logic and reason. But please refrain from personal attacks and logically fallacious arguments.
Primum non nocere. First do no harm

Paul_H

You stated that "To force smokers to give up their best anti-anxiety tool is (pardon me) insane in a mental health treatment setting."

Tell us where it has been shown that cancer sticks are the "best anti-anxiety tool". If this were in fact true then wouldn't cigarettes be one of the most widely prescribed anxiety tools.

You also stated "And if nurses find there is violence over cigarettes, I suggest they abandon their monomaniacal obsession with "control" and start treating patients with respect for their own individuality."

To this I would like to put forward the following hypothetical for you to consider.
It is 2:30 am on a stormy night and a seventeen year old girl is admitted to the locked unit of a mental health facility. She has attempted suicide by slicing the inside lengths of her forearms and has been placed on the highest level of observation (arms length).
She is demanding a cigarette and the only person in the unit with cigarettes is a 35 year old Man with a primary diagnosis of bipolar disorder and an axis two diagnosis of anti social personality disorder.
As the nurse in this hypothetical situation what do you do?
How do you weigh up the following ?
The health of the non-smoking nurse who must remain at arm’s length from the girl at all times.
The girl’s individuality
The risk of fostering a dependent relationship on the man.
All in the pouring rain at 2:30 in the morning.
“PTLF”

link it in a most bizarre fashion with motor sports,
Gadphil,
apologies for that. I got interrupted & then utterly side-tracked & thought it was about emission etc. my bad.