Mark, coal is being subsidised, big time - but you knew that.

Yeah, a good link rstuart - thanks.

@Hasbeen, anyone who thinks coal will be shut down overnight is a hasbeen.

Curmudgeon:

>> Consumers have previously been mislead by the emphasis on wind as some sort of solution to the carbon problem. <<

That is why in my last post I posited that transitioning to alternative forms of energy will require a raft of fuel types such as (here I go again) solar, thermal, tidal, hydro as well as advancing technology in storing energy like I said above in liquid salt.

Nor did I say that the only issue is about carbon we need to tackle pollution in general - desecrated lakes, streams, oceans, degraded land from over cropping. Why bother addressing a comment to me if you don't even fracking read what has been written?

Instead of me and many others who post regularly here at OLO spoon-feeding you, why don't you do some research for yourself and think even a little bit. There are many links provided by Rstuart, Bonmot and others.

Gentlefolks and others.
At the rate of increase of our population, currently nudging two percent per annum, by 2020 we will have to supply power as well as other amenities, to another four million people.

I don't see any alternatives to the present base load supply coming from either gas or coal. Both these will add considerable CO2 to the atmosphere in spite of the current 12 million dollar advertising campaign of our government.

David

Mark Lawson here

rstuart
Go back and look at the material you link from 2009.. now look at the material on the reliability of wind generators.. its over a nine hour period from what seems to be a limited network. The material I cite is more recent and from actual working grids, which was the point. The rest of your link broadly confirms that wind does little for base power (they use the term 'capacity credit' - read it). You'll have to better than dated wind industry agit-prop.

Bonmot
No, think again. the coal industry pays very substantial taxes. When you say subsidy you mean tax concession, of which there are a few. The green agit-prop stuff often says subsidy, and when you check what they mean, its a concession. Wind has to be subsidised to remain in business, coal most definitely does not.

Ammonite
And here I go again, can you find anyone who's actually done this? Can anyone point to a working network with that raft of very expensive technologies that have actually worked to the point of producing base-load power? The liquid salt stuff you mention is in a few solar concentration plants but I've yet to see independent confirmation that they produce base load power. In any case its very expensive.
They have been talking about tidal and wave power energy for years. How much has actually happened?
There is no tidal in Aus, and not much elsewhere. Are there any working wave power generators in Aus? I know they have been proposed, dunno if any have been built.
Talk is cheap. What is required is a real world demonstration that any of this is actually possible.

Fine article, Mark. It is difficult to be in the real world, dealing with real data and trying to communicate with the religious left and their devotion to Gaia.

For the record, there was a small company here in Australia back in the 1980s, owned by two engineers who specialised in energy generation. They developed a "black box" energy management system intended to stabilise energy supply from various sources (wind, mini-hydro, solar, whatever) in remote, off-grid locations, such as cattle stations, mines and small islands, for example.

They actually were on the verge of starting production in Fiji when the first coup happened and they were left with not enough money to continue. Still sounds like a good idea for such locations, but clearly not a solution for a major grid.