Davidf

Exactly.

Saltpetre

Suggest you take time to read the prolific articles by Peter Sellick published on OLO.

Sellick is selling - but perhaps you will interpret his spiel differently to me.

BTW

Atheist simply means non-belief in a deity, not anti-anything. Which brings me to the comment you made regarding Pericles, AJ Phillips, Squeers, Grim et al not always agreeing 100% all the time - because atheists are not a homogeneous group - not following any tradition or text. A disbelief in god may well be the only thing they have in common - although they are all excellent writers. And they are not taking "the mickey" as you suggest.

However, I do agree 100% with Squeers observation regarding Sellick's final words:

“For when we understand it a right a life lived in the way of Christ is to be envied.”

Sells is proselytising as usual, but don't take my word for it. Check out his writing history. I am sure you will enjoy his articles where he takes issue with atheists.

With respect Peter, I think you are still missing the point. Inclusiveness is not about 'missing out' as you propose but accepting as your daughters put forward that there are many ways to interpret Jesus (or God) and many paths to enlightenment.

Then your final words in relation to a life lived in Jesus is a life to be envied, has immediately painted a picture of exclusivity and a negative judgement about the different paths others might choose.

The reactions you categorise as anti-Christianity may in fact just be anti-non-secularism and values around personal freedoms, privacy and more egalitarian policies in relation to religious interference in public policy.

The hatred you feel is perhaps the misinterpretation, not the other way around.

'His struggle is at once worthy and tortuous.'

I keep misreading things lately, I read worthy and tedious....

'there are many ways to interpret Jesus'

I see that as dangerous. Why would a church embrace relativism. Any thoughts runner? The only thing that would bring me to religion is seeing the church sticking to their guns. I cant respect an organisation that goes all flim flam on me. People say the church needs to move with the times, I think the opposite. It's all too permissive. It's moving too much with the times.

As for the derogatory use of the word 'proselytising ' I cant relate to this. It should be the duty of people that think others are to burn in hell to try and save them from such a fate.

I reckon good on them. Nothing says you have to listen. What are you all so afraid of? You brave athiests that don't believe in god

Houellebecq

You seem a lot closer to the truth than most. You write

'I see that as dangerous. Why would a church embrace relativism. Any thoughts runner? The only thing that would bring me to religion is seeing the church sticking to their guns.'

The only problem with this is that 'the church' depending on your definition has got it wrong as often as this current Government. The simple plain words of Jesus However are not and will never be wrong. He was a straight shooter. It is one aspect I admire in your posts. You cut the **. Either Jesus is who He said He is or His a phony. Too many religous folk and theologians have made Him some limp wristed image that is so far from reality that one could hardly respect Him let alone worship Him. Jesus made it clear that you are either for Him or against Him. He had the integrity to say it unlike many High Priests of atheism who hide behind some sort of pseudo intellectual cloak. The words and teachings of Jesus still to this day surpass by miles the teachings of mere man.

The problem, Houellebecq & runner, is that the Word is often not just "the words" but rather what you discover between and beneath them.

<<The words and teachings of Jesus still to this day surpass by miles the teachings of mere man.>>

"The words" of Jesus have been recorded, remembered, translated, paraphrased, simplified, condensed and then wrongly remembered again for all those centuries since he trod the earth. Reliance on them alone is folly.

To hear the Word, we often have to use anything but words. A non-literal approach to the scriptures, as when reading poetry and the fiction of the very highest quality, is a good first step. Experience during excellent liturgy, listening to or participating in outstanding music, or relating deeply to good friends or lovers are often some equally revealing pathways to the Word.

From my own experience, though, I'm beginning to think that the indispensable component is meditation.

"Jesus made it clear that you are either for Him or against Him."
runner, Thursday, 26 May 2011 3:04:46 PM

Yep, and He was against those against Him.

..........................
"Either Jesus is who He said He is or His a phoney."

Yep, we don't know what He said about himself, just what other say. By your logic this makes him a phoney.

................................

"Too many religous folk and theologians have made Him some limp wristed image that is so far from reality that one could hardly respect Him let alone worship Him."

Yep. Also, that is a version of the not-a-true-Scotsman fallacy.