Yawn!!

Firstly the media absolutely love stories and usually what is published in the papers, is written with more than a touch of sensationalism. Cold facts have very little do with a nice sensational story.

Secondly why not do away with the pretence of justice, fairness, and trials and just sentence men straight away once they have been accused.

It would save heaps of money and time. Dont worry about guilt or innonence just lock em up and throw away the key.

Writing an emotive article like this one, is not about justice and fairness, it is about manipulating the emotive strings.

Very selective articles. Much use was made of the statements of one judge from long ago as though everything rested on his views. No mention of more recent issues which have clouded the issue, eg the perception that a drunk male is more responsbible for negotiating consent than a drunk female.

Rape in marriage is a valid issue but I don't see similar outrage about women who threaten partners with retribution if they are not faithful. (and men do the same and it's equally abusive). The issue is not as clean cut as some would like to portray it.

It is a difficult issue, those genuinely sexually assaulted deserve all the support we can give them but the kind of simplistic spin I saw in this article does not help our understanding of the complexities which generally surround sex, consent etc.

R0bert

The thing is Jocelynne, in today's society, women have all the
sexual power. Not all are innocent little darlings.

If you are going to throw a bloke in jail for 5-6 years, it is
not unreasonable that there is solid evidence.

We know from the Assange case, that some women are openly vindictive.
Its hardly justice, if the law is such that they can use it to
achieve their objective.

For this very reason, ie justice for both genders, rape cases will
never be easy, for emotions and feelings of retribution need
to be considered, unlike many other crimes.

The interpretation of the law is hardly as bad as you seem to want
to portray it, or the issue of the 30 second rapist would have never
gone before the courts.

We all see the law through our perspective, but there are other
perspectives then just your own. Wisdom comes with being able to
imagine the world through those, to gain some kind of objectivity.

Yes but how do you change the cultrual mindset Jocelynne. I am not sure education is the key, it has not done much thus far. How do you change a largely victim-blaming psyche around the issue of rape?

I think it will take a couple of generations at least for this mindset to evolve and where BOTH accuser and accused are deemed innocent until proven guilty. As it should be.

Ascertaining who is telling the lie and the truth is always the difficulty - maybe a polygraph? Are they reliable? Fact is women really don't have much of a hope in these cases, rarely can one prove rape unless there is a witness and there rarely is. It is one person's word over another. Even DNA evidence is not enough as sex can be consensual, bruises and cuts may not be enough as "maybe she liked it rough" (you can hear the defence lawyer already). I've even heard pedophiles claiming the child enticed them or was sexually provocative.

Integrity is not the hallmark of a rapist nor a false accuser.

In certain situations one can understand why many women do not go to Court. Thankfully, at least there are rape crisis centres providing support as required. The fact is sometimes justice will be impossible.

Well said Pelican

It seems that some people prefer to get more upset about a couple of innocents being found guilty than to care about the thousands of guilty ones who walk free. I am not saying I don’t think it’s awful for those innocents, just that if the law is going to be biased in it’s slant it would be better if it was slanted towards punishing the guilty and giving justice to the thousands that do not get it.

I Think though technically it seems unjust to bring up the fact that a man has been accused or charged with rape previously; in his current court case, it is actually an injustice to the victim not to let the jury be aware of this fact, especially, when as is often the case these men walk free.

The media ran a case some years back where they questioned a man on TV
who had just been aquitted for the 3rd time of a rape which he had committed in exactly the same way on all three occasions.

Also in the Mrs. Brimble case, one of the accused had also been aquitted of a previous rape.

Also in the city I live in I know of at least one prominent rape case where the man was found not guilty and it was reported after the trial that he also had committed a previous rape.

With so many of the guilty walking free in these cases the law should be changed to let this fact of previous rapes be assessed in conjunction with the present case by the jury. This would be one step in seeing more justice towards the victim and more punishment for the guilty in rape cases.

Yabby,

I can’t agree with you on the Assange case. The woman did not actually accuse him of rape but of having sex with her without using a condom. That also is an issue of an abuse of power. If true it means that Assange put his own selfish pleasure ahead of the need to protect his partner and himself from sexually transmitted disease. Not to mention unwanted pregnancy.

It seems to me that this would fit with Julian Assange’s arrogance and disdain for authority.

He really proved the American government really doesn't have too many skeletons in their closet that we weren't already pretty aware of. I'm still waiting to hear some terribly earthshattering information that I couldn't have deduced myself about their activities.

I agree with you about Assange CHERFUL. That is another situation that will be difficult to prove given I doubt anyone was watching the sexual act. One person's word over another and some people are already scoffing at the idea that anyone might be concerned about STDs or AIDS. So much for education on safe sex, it is all very well to educate but not much good if it is not adopted in reality.

"It seems that some people prefer to get more upset about a couple of innocents being found guilty than to care about the thousands of guilty ones who walk free."

The impression is that many men think most rape charges are bogus or that the woman was some way responsible. That is the travesty and why so many women I have spoken to won't report crimes. And this is the 21st Century.

I am not sure I agree about slanting the law the other way too much either. What is that saying about "better four guilty men go free than one innocent man be imprisoned".

Would society or the judicial system be better for a few innocent men being imprisoned to ensure the guilty paid for their crimes? I don't want that either. There seems to be no perfect solution.

Either way, what we have now or being overzealous with jail terms, does not improve the system.

I really don't know the answer as far as the Courts go, but I think we can work on the cultural mindset of victim-blaming. Maybe the home is as good a place to start and how we raise our children

*It seems to me that this would fit with Julian Assange’s arrogance and disdain for authority*

Cherful, I personally don't have much time for Assange, but that
has nothing to do with the case.

Fact is that Assange is being investigated under Swedish rape laws
and removing a condom is not rape.

Fact is that both these women did not say boo, until they compared
notes and realised that he has slept with both of them. One of them
seemingly even bragged about the event on Twitter, IIRC.

Fact is that one of these women had published an artice on the
internet some months prior to the event, about how to get retribution
against a partner who has pissed you off. I did not read it, but
I gather it was all about vindictiveness.

YABBY, Thank you for your reply. You say that Assange is being prosecuted under Swedish rape laws and rape without a condom is not rape.

It does seem like rape in some respects, because if you only agreed to have sex with him wearing a condom, then you said no to having sex with him without a condom. Does a woman have the right to protect her own body from sex without a condom or not?

Also having sex without a condom can be a death sentence with the wrong person and who knows which person that might be.I would be surprised if he gets more than just a rap over the knuckles for it (meaning a light sentence) if anything.

I do agree with you that it is a difficult decision for a court to have to make. It does seem less serious than premeditated rape in terms of violation

PELICAN You are right we do need to work on the cultural mind-set of victim blaming and the home and how we raise our children would be a good place to start.

It will be difficult to change that cultural mind set because it is based on fear not reason. Men fear being in the position of being innocently accused and women fear being raped, so they think if the victim was responsible for her own rape in some way, then it can't happen to innocent women like them.
It makes them feel less vulnerable to think that way.

Anyone notice the oxymoron.

A human rights lawyer, who wants more men to be found guilty and gaoled.

"It will be difficult to change that cultural mind set because it is based on fear not reason. Men fear being in the position of being innocently accused and women fear being raped, so they think if the victim was responsible for her own rape in some way, then it can't happen to innocent women like them. It makes them feel less vulnerable to think that way."

That is a very sensible and insightful analysis CHERFUL. It is easy to understand why men might feel vulnerable in this way. Not an easy issue to deal with from any perspective.

<As a serving policeman, there are several things I am not allowed to talk about.>

<There are plenty of operational secrets we cannot discuss, but I’m not referring to those. I’m talking about the taboo subjects. The ‘detection’ rate for rape is one of these.>

<It’s very frustrating to sit and listen to pundits talking about the low number of rape convictions in Court, when as police officers we all know what lies behind these poor numbers.>

<For example, I couldn’t possibly tell you that out of every ten rapes which are reported in Ruraltown, at least eight turn out to be nonsense.>

http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/when-is-a-rape-not-a-rape-shock/

CHERFUL, pelican I agree with that point but by the same token there is an incentive for women to deny their own role in a sexual activity which they later regret. Looking back in the cold sober light of day they may decide that maybe it wasn't all as consentual as it seemed at the time.

I think that both apply at times.

R0bert

You make a valid point there Robert. But the thing is, if a female
has been duped by some guy, she has not been raped. Some will try
to get their own back, by turning it into a rape charge.

So IMHO we just need to be cautious and need some solid evidence
before we go locking people away for years.

If it was your son in jail, you might not be so thrilled.

Yabby pelican summed it up nicely "Not an easy issue to deal with from any perspective."

R0bert