Ant “Young people generally in the past have had a heightened sense of what is moral and what is not; this is now not as noticeable.
Whether Uni students have been niave in the past is a debatable point; like any area we learn as we get older. Senator Abetz was involved in student politics when he was at Uni.”

And what is a conservative voter –

Someone who has learnt better from the excesses of their youth.
Someone who knows what is really heinous and what is really moral
Someone equipped with what Uni students lack – experience of real life.

As for socialists – they are the “dreamers” in rabid pursuit of the pointless – like the emotionally traumatised, they are unable to move forward in terms of personal development

Is this democratic debate or call to war?

-----

The Australian 04nov05

Holy war is being urged by Muslim preachers in Australia, reports Richard Kerbaj, who visited mosques and heard voices shrieking with angst and passion.

A VOICE explodes through the speakers at Lakemba's nondescript Haldon Street prayer hall in Sydney's southwest during a Friday qutbah (sermon). About 400 men are huddled shoulder to shoulder, seated or kneeling on the floor of the hall, above a gym. A few stare blankly ahead, others have their eyes shut and faces cupped with their palms, almost in a trancelike, meditative state.

It's October 21, the middle of Ramadan, and Sheik Abdul Salam Mohammed Zoud, who has been living in Australia since the mid 1990s, stands on a platform at the front of the room reading his sermon in Arabic.
"Ramadan is not a month for indolence," he screams through a lapel microphone, drawing on Koranic parables about the importance of annihilating al-adou (the enemy) and stressing the Koranic obligation of jihad (spiritual struggle or holy war) during the month of fasting. His voice can be heard clearly in the car park outside.

"Ramadan is a month for jihad upon oneself and jihad upon the enemy, a time when followers must become more disciplined in adhering to the message of the Koran, and more willing and prepared to topple the enemy of Islam: the West".

Listeners nod approvingly as Zoud praises mujaheddin guerilla warriors engaged in holy war who are waging bloody battles against Western troops across the world, and implores Allah to grant them victory in their fight against the enemies of Islam.

Allah yinsur el-mujaheddin fe-Iraq (God grant victory to the mujaheddin in Iraq), he screams, his voice crackling as he defies his own vocal range. He then repeats the message three times screaming it louder and with more intensely.

Twice at the end of the 35 minute oration in front of the men, who are mostly in their 30s and 40s, the sheik exclaims : Inshallah (God willing) dark days will descend upon America soon.

Hey Col

"Someone who has learnt better from the excesses of their youth.
Someone who knows what is really heinous and what is really moral
Someone equipped with what Uni students lack – experience of real life."

I have learnt from the excesses of my youth - not ashamed but lucky to have escaped relatively unscathed.

I am aware of what is really heinous and what is really moral - although I remain flexible on moral, I believe that controlling others by either wealth, stealth or might is heinous.

Equiped with what Uni students lack I used to be a Uni student and now I'm old - guess I am doubly qualified.

Does this make me conservative?

Eagerly awaiting your response Col Rouge.

BTW - Col are you all knowing and all wise?

;-)

Scout “…I believe that controlling others by either wealth, stealth or might is heinous.

Equiped with what Uni students lack I used to be a Uni student and now I'm old - guess I am doubly qualified”

Ah the wealth and might of the unions who first demand, through intimidation union fees which they them deploy in pursuit of their own political agenda – that sure is heinous. The stealth of the socialist who cries crocodile tears for the disadvantaged whilst squirreling their ill gotten gains away – Graham Richardson’s bodgie printing company or some sly boot who gets a nice “commissioner of bulldust” role for services to the party.

I would observe you likely fit the profile of the emotionally traumatised dreamer more than the conservative.

The events of the last few days have highlighted the fact that the police authorities both State and Federal have sufficient powers NOW to handle the threat of terrorism in Australia. Why then is the Federal Government wanting more powers to handle situations where the present laws are sufficient? In the 1950's Menzies had to have laws to protect Australians from the "Communist threat" which were denied by the High Court and Referendum in which Dr Evatt took a leading role in defeating both of these Menzies' attacks on our civil liberties.
Now Howard has to have laws to protect Australians from the "Trade Union threat" (New IR laws) as well as new laws to protect Australians from "Terrorist threat" which as mentioned above are not required to allow the police authorities to act against any terrorist threat.
Like Menzies with his "Downward thrust of Asian Communism" this Government firstly creates an atmosphere of fear and then declares they have to protect us by new laws which basically are designed to take away our civil liberties.

SAS

Col "I would observe you likely fit the profile of the emotionally traumatised dreamer more than the conservative."

I confess to being a dreamer and take it as a compliment - I don't believe you know enough about me to know if I have been traumatised or not - but then why would you leave an opportunity to sneer at someone with whom you disagree go by?

Back to topic

I would like to submit the following article from the Age regarding the necessity of the ramped-up terrorism laws.

The crux of the article is that arrests were made of alleged terrorists with the existing laws
- had they been made with the new laws would we even know about it?
If we did, would we be allowed to discuss it?
Would there be a fair trial?

Read on and decide for yourselves fellow posters all.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/proof-new-law-not-needed/2005/11/09/1131407697997.html