With the Australian dollar so strong, the non mining industry is in a very difficult position. The carbon tax would push many challenged industries over the edge. The former lower and middle income employees would most definitely not be better off.

Secondly, with the blocking of the nuclear alternative by Labor and the Greens, there is no viable alternative to coal, and the emissions reductions would come from efficiency gains, and the relocation of industries to non taxed countries.

And Finally for what will we have sacrificed our industry? There is no indication that Australia going it alone will even make a fraction of a percent difference to global emissions.

As it has become clear recently, Juliar and Swan had no intention to tax carbon, the only reason for this tax is to fulfil the conditions the Greens set for an alliance, and Juliar hasn't the guts to stand up to Bob Brown.

Alternative viewpoints to shadow minister comments below in brackets.

With the Australian dollar so strong, the non mining industry is in a very difficult position. The carbon tax would push many challenged industries over the edge. (highly unlikely: much worse price rises have impacted these businesses recently due to exchange rates, fuel price rises, and the higher dollar, plus export exposed industries will get compensation, the rest have the option to increase prices) - The former lower and middle income employees would most definitely not be better off. (lower and middle income employees will be compensated, upper income employees can fend for themselves - again impact likely to be lower than for the recently announced flood levy).


Secondly, with the blocking of the nuclear alternative by Labor and the Greens, there is no viable alternative to coal (not true wind power and solar and geothermal can all fill the gap), and the emissions reductions would come from efficiency gains, and the relocation of industries to non taxed countries (again export exposed industries will get compensation).

And Finally for what will we have sacrificed our industry (no sacrifice required)? There is no indication that Australia going it alone will even make a fraction of a percent difference to global emissions (Australia is a noted laggard in this space, hardly going it alone) (It is in Australia's interests to develop expertise around renewable energies since that is the future).

As it has become clear recently, Juliar and Swan had no intention to tax carbon, the only reason for this tax is to fulfil the conditions the Greens set for an alliance, and Juliar hasn't the guts to stand up to Bob Brown. (well politically your options are limited because even Tony Abbot has committed to the same reductions in Australia's emissions proposing alternative arrangements that just about every commentator believes would be more costly).

Fellas, it is difficult to believe the way greens, which seem to include some posters, cling to this idea of a carbon tax, in the teeth of all logic and reason.

There is no way its ever going to be of any use. Even on first principles and even to the dullest of individuals, Alan is completely correct.

The case for a national carbon tax was doubtful even when it was assumed that the rest of the world would step up and institute something like a carbon tax. Alan points out that, world-wide, there are positives and negatives in temperature increases (assuming that the science is in any way correct and the forecasts anywhere near reality), and are supposed to happen over a full century.

By making various outrageous assumptions, such as made in the Stern report, it was possible to argue the point, and confuse the public. But even that avenue to confuse vanishes totally if Australia goes alone, and there is no indication of any kind that the world is going to follow suit. There are limited emissions trading schemes in Europe, parts of America and New Zealand and that seems to be all we're going to get.

A carbon tax only makes sense as a concession by Gillard to the greens - as a political ploy. As public policy it is obvious, rank, glaring, total nonsense.

Tim Flannery recently claimed that it may take 1000yr to reduce the temp if all emissions in all countries ceased now. This whole sad affair is set to become a scam of monstrous proportions.

Atman, don't start "knocking" Flim Flammery, he is the skeptics' secret weapon.

Rich2,

Small businesses that are competing against imports will not be compensated, neither will other small businesses that use power, such as restaurants, farms, and other small businesses, they will as you say simply increase prices. The house hold compensation will cover the main inputs, but not the total cost of living it will drive.

"wind power and solar and geothermal can all fill the gap" Really. Please feel free to show one single commercial base load supply from renewables other than hydro (no new dams)

The only ETS in existence is in Europe which is extremely limited, and has an effective carbon price of $5, only 20% of what Juliar and Bob Brown want.

If you honestly think this will not shut down industries, you are kidding yourself.