Hear, hear!

What else can I say?

Very good. Would it be possible for apprentices to get further through their training (and be more employable) at TAFE? At the moment, few employers want to take the trouble of employing an apprentice and generally will only do so for a mate/relative/team-mate etc.

Tip for any unemployed person (disabled or otherwise) being stuffed around by Centrelink, ATO or any other Commonwealth agency: Make it clear that if the Commonwealth takes you to court (and maybe even if it doesn't), you will seek compensation for loss of job opportunities caused by employers' obligation to collect GST and PAYE tax at their own expense, in contravention of s.82 of the Constitution, which states that tax collection costs are the responsibility of the Commonwealth: http://is.gd/grp_s82 .

maybe the real bludgers are the systemic blockages to customise access to work and benefits, because not enough attention is paid to that sort of thing by fat cat highranking public servants who are more interested in promoting their own careers and ignoring the real needs of the frustrated 'clients' they are really meant to serve...

The very real problem in the present times is the trend to privatisation of former government entities such as: railways, electricity, gas, water,public transport, public works, all government owned enterprises usually then run on a not for profit basis. All these entities under government control employed large numbers of well trained apprentices and disabled persons. With privatisation these apprentice and disabled numbers were greatly reduced in a bid to increase profits, consequently by far the largest employer of apprentices suddenly just was'nt there anymore. The hidden results of this privatisation policy, as a consequence, is the nationwide lack of experienced tradesmen & apprenticeships. No government sponsered training programmes or throwing money at employers to train would be apprentices will ever compensate for the privatisation of these former government owned workshops.

This article should be compulsory reading for everyone working in employment agencies, government departments and all politicians.

Excellent article, and an area that needs addressing ASAP.

Just as an aside - can someone either:
a) Give grputland his own unique forum so he stops bugging us OR
b) Slap him upside the head with a fish, again so he stops bugging us

Getting a little tired of him popping up with the same old drivel...

Totally agree

Money that could be directed at where it is better needed but isn't, is due to the mismanagement of other areas of welfare payments, all designed to impact favourably on the statistics quoted by the ministers each month, which like so many items addressed by this feckless government, are just plain lies.

Perhaps the most blatant example is the statement yesterday of “40,000 new jobs filled in March”

More lies. Only 8 hours work by either a willing job applicant or a 'dole bludger' registers as being in full employment Just 8 hours. Historically, that means that anyone who works for one day only is for Commonwealth Government statistical purposes, off the unemployment list and becomes a positive statistic, touted in front of the cameras.

Now that is fiddling the books. In other words, it says to the naive public 'we are brilliant at finding work for voters who are all out earning money, paying taxes, supporting happy families' and whatever else makes a headline.

It doesn’t mention that employers are offered substantial incentives by the government for keeping an employee off the dole queue, for some form of training, transport assistance to and from the workplace, specialist equipment and even work clothes if required. What are we running in Australia? Someone has to pay for all these excessive Federal ‘feel-good’ gestures.
But it does make the statistics look good.The fact that they are lies seems to be irrelevant.
We’’ll worry about that next month.

Another injustice is between an aged Australian pensioner after paying taxes for 60 years receiving $16,068 yearly when compared to an illegal boat person receiving $56,000. It is just so hard to justify these variations unless you consider, yes, statistics and how they look each month.

Sadly Naomi, we are shackled to a government that is all front, spin, no depth and totally preoccupied with staying in power. Your situation is much less visible to the spinners, therefore media, so you receive little consideration at all.

No one really cares.

Dear "rational-debate",

If I am not mistaken, you are the first person who has expressed disagreement with my contention (http://is.gd/grp_s82) that tax-collection costs violate s.82 of the Constitution.

No one has yet offered any criticism of the reasoning behind that contention.

(1) I have had a lot to do with Rehabs over the years. I even ran one in the early eighties as Senior Counsellor / Assistant Administrator. ( with my brand new Corona, the administrator had a Corolla !new of course ! Wow ! ) This was at Jodaro Aboriginal Hostel and run by Queensland Aboriginal and Islander Alcohol Services. ( QAIAS ). Like all Indigenous Specific Services there was and is, almost unlimited government funding available. And taken advantage of. But no-one was giving up the grog ! So to keep the “Gravy Train” rolling, the Rehab had to be seen to be delivering some sort of “outcome” So, some-one came up with the brilliant idea of offering ( and delivering, still ! ) a Disability Support Pension to the clients as a strategy and incentive to attract and to keep people there ! This was, is, also occurring at Namitjara Haven in Lismore as well as Benelong Haven at Kempsey. Both Indigenous Specific rehabs in NSW. And over Many Years ! So what we have is, Many Thousands of Aboriginal people on D.S.Ps for nothing more that Alcohol Abuse ! Yet in general good health ! Just won't give the grog up ! Pissed and partying every pension day curtsey of the Australian government ! An issue not discussed in the public domain. Nor will it Ever Be. Because of “Political Correctness” And the Aboriginal Victim Industry ( AVI ) would refer to it as “Attacking the Victims” Victims of Colonisation, and of course, Dispossession ! What a Good Lurk ! I can tell you what it is worth these days as I am on it ! ( DSP ) $700 a Fortnight ! Much better than the Dole ! With More Sympathy ! And Support ! ( if you're Aboriginal that is ! )
Arthur. Bell. ( Aboriginal ! )www.whitc.info

(2) But please don't attack me of expect me to give up my pension as I have hereditary, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease ( COPD ) and at 62, have almost died a few times ( about 40 ! ) already ! Including being in a coma for a week and not expected to live. ( so there ! )
Arthur. Bell. ( Aboriginal ! ) www.whitc.info

Why do you feel the need to help justify Tony Abbott's intention to squeeze the bottom end of the economy to finance a 1% reduction in company tax?

Why don't you grow a pair and take on a fight that matters?

Is it ok that corporate tax evaders steal billions every year?

Why are so many highly profitable so called "free market capitalists" taking billions in public money every year? (Australian fossil fuel industry alone took $10billion last year)

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor!

Naomi Anderson,
judging by this you're just another dreary drudge of the system, devoid of imagination and intent on giving some form to a dog's breakfast.
Why must you think in terms of adapting the system to the individual, or validating the corporation with a consignment of guilt that it will eagerly take up, at least as PR. Critique is the means by which the system grows stronger; it assimilates it, uses it, to a point; to the point that it serves the bottom line and not beyond it. If you had any nous at all you'd see that what you ask for (no better than unionism) is unrealistic in the long term. Your intentions are clearly honourable, but naive, mendicant.
Why don't you try to overthrow this system of patronage, rather than validating it with a begging bowl?

I agree totally with the sentiments of this article and also with the comments of Phil7 and Bully in particular.

I don't believe that drug addicts and alcoholics should be allowed onto the Disability Pension at all full stop. The DSP is designed as an income support payment to those whose condition will not improve within the next two years and cannot understake study, training or paid work of more than 15 hours per week within that same time frame. Drug addicts and alcoholics need to hit rock bottom and get themselves into a detox centre and there their condition will definitely improve within two years.

As for Phil7's comments about needing to take on the big end of town, I agree with them as well. It seems that its popular nowadays for politicians to claim that the numbers of people on DSP are bloated with dole bludgers which I find hard to believe. The big end of town finance the electoral campaigns of both sides of politics, pay close to or near nor tax (by various legal tax mechanisms), are greedy and lazy. They need to pay their fair share of tax without recourse to tax minimization schemes, cease financing electoral campaigns and on the issue of the Disability Support Pension - butt out and shut up altogether.

And for the record I am on the DSP and have been so since January 2008 due to multiple mental health diagnoses and a musculo-skeletal condition called Fibromyalgia. All this has been and is continued to be treated and documented by various specialists and mental health practitioners.

theoriginalmattyc< "I don't believe that drug addicts and alcoholics should be allowed onto the Disability Pension at all full stop."

What of those drug addicts or alcoholics who have developed chronic conditions as a result of their addictions...such as liver failure, kidney failure, or any of the blood-born diseases such as HIV or Hepatitis C?

And if we are going to deny the alcoholics and drug addicts disability pensions, then we should surely deny the tobacco addicts the pension for the same reasons?

There are multiple chronic diseases caused by smoking... including lung cancer, emphysema, and COPD (Like Bully), who most certainly can't work because of these debilitating conditions at some stage of their illnesses.

I doubt the government is talking about these sort of disability pensioners as being bludgers.

More than likely it is the conditions that are difficult to prove that are used as an excuse by true welfare bludgers... such as some back pain problems, some mental health disorders and some 'stress related' illnesses (not ALL are bogus of course).

Some people will think up all sorts of scams to avoid working!

As an electrician who came from a housing commission area, I would like to say that Naomi Anderson’s scenario is the biggest fantasy since the Stolen Generation(s).

Gee Naomi, I came from a block of flats with 84 units, and I can absolutely assure you that many of the people there really did believe that the world owed tham a living. They had no intention of working if they could get away with it. . And if you think differently, then you must have led a sheltered life.

When Whitlam got into power, I held onto my apprenticeship while all of my mates from the flats tossed their apprenticeships in and went surfing every day. They thought I was crazy for going to work. Most of my old friends today would be unemployable. Why should the taxpayer subsidize stupidity when our hospitals in Sydney are permanently at Code Red through lack of funding?

Of course, apprenticeships were very easy to get when I was a teenager, that was before the unions and the government decided to buy the youth vote by tripling apprentice wages until no employer could afford to hire one. As for her fictional hero getting hurt on a site with “no OH&S”, there are sites like that, and they are all controlled by imported ethnic groups who would never hire an Australian anyway, and who undercut the prices of Australian firms who do submit to OH&S. But I’ll bet that Naomi is another one who thinks that multiculturalism is just grand.

Australia has 800,000 people on disability pensions, Naomi,which is incredible for a country of 21 million. The real story is what proportion of them are phony. Stop parroting the Party line that the poor unemployed are all genuine and accept the reality that too many of them are bludging on the system.

Your problem, Naomi, is that there are a lot of people from my own socio economic demographic who can relate similar stories to mine, and who know that your little scenario is complete hogwash. And you wonder why working people vote Liberal.

Oh what a wonderful story.

Just a few points.

The author says>>He enrols in a pre-apprenticeship to be an electrician - paying over a thousand dollars - and passes with excellent grades.

Is this the same kid, who had no interest while at school?

If so, why did he change?

Now you say the parents earned $60K, and that this was all but taken up in rent. Wow, that's some apartment!

So, just a few questions.

If the parents were obviously, low income earners, why on earth did they have a child, knowing full well they couldn't afford him?

Also, why didn't they take some responsibility for their child's education and ensure that he did better at school.

After all, he obviously had the abbility.

After all, with almost their entire wage gone in rent, it's not as if they were down at the pub because they had no money for that.

You see everyone blames society, but in reality, it's the parents who are ultimately resposible for the future of their kids.

Now if they don't want to take resposibility, then don't have kids.

Cash wages at a construction site. That's about as rare as hens teeth and in any case, any serious injury would have been reported when he went to hospital. Sorry, but I don't buy this one.

Now, the real problem with hiring a disabled person is the way that they are paid.

I have been there and done that. The employer is provided with a subsidy for up to 26 weeks, after which the employee has to then be paid at full rates.

I have complained about this very issue. I suggested that the employer be given a continual subsidy dependant on the degree of disability. But they won't listen.

Why on earth will anyone employ a person with 70% ability and pay them 100% wages. Won't happen.

Why not address the root cause rather than join the witch hunt?

Maybe there are some contributing factors to the growing rates of depression & disability from an increasingly varied range of complaints.

Gee, I don't know, maybe increasing the gap between rich & poor causes some stress - particularly on the poor - you think?

Maybe ongoing pollution in air food & water contributes to the decline of public health in general and the vulnerable in particular.

A civilized society looks after its members who can't (for whatever reason) look after themselves.

Try a bit of compassion - I would rather support ten people who could survive without help, than deny assistance to one who genuinely needed it.

Some of the people who frequent here seem to be full-on social darwinists whose vision of society is a brutal struggle for survival where the poor, the marginal and the vulnerable are to be cast by the wayside like human refuse. And then demonised and dehumanised lest those responsible for this state of affairs suffer pangs of conscience. It's hard to tell what's worse: ordinary people who accept this brutal, callous logic, or the right-wing politicians that use resentment against the vulnerable as a wedge against their rivals to distract from the fact they are governing for the rich, and against the interests of the ordianary man and woman in any case. Don't condemn the vulernable until you've walked a mile in their shoes...

rehctub wrote: "Now, the real problem with hiring a disabled person is the way that they are paid. I have been there and done that. The employer is provided with a subsidy for up to 26 weeks, after which the employee has to then be paid at full rates."

Obviously it's both cheaper and more productive to pay employers to hire disabled people than to pay disabled people to do nothing. The more so if the arrangement is permanent.

rehctub continued: "I have complained about this very issue. I suggested that the employer be given a continual subsidy dependant on the degree of disability. But they won't listen."

Then MAKE them listen. If you're disabled, sue the Commonwealth for reducing your job opportunities by requiring employers to collect GST and PAYE tax at their own expense, in contravention of s.82 of the Constitution, which states that tax collection costs are the responsibility of the Commonwealth (http://is.gd/grp_s82). Hold out for vindication by refusing to settle the constitutional claim out of court without a public admission that present arrangements are indeed unconstitutional. But indicate that you are willing to discontinue the case for the time being (i.e. without settling it) if subsidies for employing disabled people are made permanent.

If it's good enough for the big mining companies to force the legislators to modify the mining tax, then it's good enough for disabled people to force the legislators to modify subsidies for hiring.

Tony , if he had any brains, would, if he gets into being main part of the government, put the top tax back up to the 66% or 70% just as the prime ministers and treasurers did in the 30 years before 1970, because they found that that was the way to get rid of the recession, and created lower costs for the workers and they were able to pay the mortgage, keep their homes and properly feed and clothe their family. The people in the parties since haven't had the intelligence or the integrity to bring sanity into parliament. It really needs that high top tax as you can see it will stop obscene incomes which causes high prices and a shortage of cash where it is needed in the workplace and hospitals etc, and other places which are so short of money over the last thirty or forty years. However with that high top tax, it also needs no tax on the first $30,000 or so to keep the income to the 30% which has been needed for running government. The lawyers we have had as prime ministers and treasurers over the last forty years, are almost totally devoid of intelligence. Look up on the internet,"history of tax in Australia", "History of tax in the US", and also "Taxes around the world". You know that there was a depresson in the US in the 1930's, and one in Australia as well, for the same reason, so get some intelligence from that, the political parties haven't got enough, and I doubt that any members of political parties do either, they just rave about something they just don't know about because the leader of their party says so.

Tristan Ewins.....I,d love to add another 3 to 4000 words to that, but thank-you. Dear Tony. Do you think the Australian public are that stupid not to see through your angle? The capitalist system you/we love so much, has by-products attached to it, and you know it! The right wing know just too well there's winners and looses with-in any democracy, so why the bullsh!t?

Naomi Anderson....the truth I find is much easer to print/type:)

Well done and Thankyou for bring this to light.

LEAP

Jack from Bicton is right on the money.

For example, back in the early 70's Telstra (then the PMG/Telecom) would take on up to 800 Trainees and Apprentices each year. They were trained at various dedicated training academies and TAFE and achieved formal industrial accreditation. There was a high attrition rate and most were "bled off" into private enterprise where they were greatly valued for the training they received.

In other words, the taxpayer was subsiding private industry with something they weren't prepare to do for themselves and thereby maintaining the economy.

Now that entire generation is on the verge of retirement and parts of the economy has been living off those skills for a very long time. There has been nothing undertaken remotely like those years for decades and typically replacements are now recruited from overseas.

Blaming, generalising and demonising the unemployed and using short-term political solutions (like the proposed "Dole-choices") are no solution at all.

Everybody gains from a proper system and so everybody should contribute.

When Malcolm Fraser was Prime Minister, he said we were creating a society of people who will never work, and this has happened, but the reason is controversial, but most likely the combination of the reciprocal imports from the mining exports and the low top tax. Joh Bjelke Petersen was encouraging the export of coal back in the 1950's, and Bob Menzies gave Lang Hancock the opening to export the iron ore about the same time, so the excessive amounts of these exports and others, have introduced the opening for the excessive amount of those imports that the companies are buying and selling cheap and destroying the manufacture of our Australian products. After the depression of the 1930's, John Curtin, Ben Chifley and Harold Holt all worked on the reason why there was a recession, and found that the top tax had to be higher, and it was increased to 66.6%. Unfortunately they did not realise that a reduction of the total tax take was needed to keep within the requirements of what was needed to handle the expenses of running the country, but then, neither did any other prime minister or treasurer since then, not Peter Costello or Wayne Swan either. You can look at the pickle the US is in now, their top personal tax of 35% has allowed high salaries to those who can organise it, with salaries around $100 million for some CEO's, $ 5 or $10 million for many actors and actresses, and the country is now in deep trouble financially, that is being really clever, isn't it. If we ever get a group of politicians with intelligence, they will increase the top personal tax to 65% or 70% and no tax for the first $30,000 or so, and increase the tax and decrease the amount of export of our non renewable resources, and give priority to Australian manufacturing industries.

About 90% of bad health, drunkenness, drug taking and crimes - stealing or assault, can be attributed to too much spare time, and this generally is unemployment and loss of pride, even many accidents can be attributed to this with no genuine involvement in an interesting career or hobby. When this is recognised and proper action is taken to ensure that this error is overcome, and people can obtain full time work, not just two or three days to satisfy the politicians desire of a low statistic on employment, the pride of these people will return and the country will settle into being a hard working, happy population, but mainly, the politicians have to start being intelligent and get integrity, and realise that they are only the same low class people that they think our workers are, and should return their salary to what it would have been if other politicians had left it in relationship to the workers over the last fifty or sixty years.

Our biggest dole bludgers are the has-been politicians on the tax free benefit scheme.

How do you think they can fund it?

we could fund everything imaginable if we just closed the loopholes that tax avoiders exploit to get out of paying their share.

Sorry, who are the bludgers?

I am sorry if the truth hurts your ears, Tristan. The fact that our welfare system is being looted by foreigners can be very easily verified by the simple expedient of walking into any social security office. I did just that only a few years ago when I was unemployed for a few weeks, thinking that it would be just like the old CES layout, with the jobs on cards where everybody could see them.

Nup. I found that I had top register as “unemployed, when I was simply looking for a job. It was “spot the Aussie” right from the word “go”, and the very first thing that the (foreign) woman at the desk asked me was “Which country are you from?” Says it all, eh Tristan?

Just like every trendy lefty who wants to tax Aussies to death to pay for multiculturalism, you refuse to see beyond your ideological blinkers. So you adopt the three monkey approach to anything that might even suggest that the holy doctrine of multiculturalism is not infallible. Well, just like the Labor Party, you have lost the Australian working class, because know that when you say “tax the rich” and “tax the emitters” we know that you are really talking about us.

If you really want to know just who your most ardent critics are Tristan,they are the disadvantaged class people who do work for a living on very low wages, who live in depressed areas surrounded by dole bludgers who sneer and laugh at them for their honesty and work ethic. Next time you go into a sandwich shop in a depressed area, tell the woman making sandwiches that there is no such thing as a dole bludger. You better stand back if she has a knife in her hands.

You must be either a social worker touting for business to have the bizarre opinions that you do, or else you were born so high up in an ivory tower that you can’t see what is happening on the ground for the clouds.

Jesus, Merv09, which planet did you beam down from?

As an ex Housing Commission tenant, I can absolutely assure you that the biggest factor in long term unemplyment by people who are perfectly healthy, is low intelligence.

Dumb people do poorly at school, they do not want to work, they drink, smoke, gamble, and take drugs, spend all of their time watching Sky Channel, and when they are not doing all of these things, dump people are in bed procreating more dumb people.

Your premise that poor people really want to work to get some "dignity" is a premise more worthy of hilarity than serious consideration. Did it ever occur to you that dole bludgers realy do think that they are smart because they don't work? Yeah, that's right, old mate. I have lived among them. They get their sense of self worth and self esteem by thinking how clever they are at beating the system.

The problem for Australia, is that dumb people are breeding a lot faster than smart people. This is especially true of smart women, who today are hardly breeding at all. It is interestring to extrapolate forward and calculate how long it will be before the smart productive people are no longer able to support the dumb counter productive people, and the country goes broke.

This is already happening in France, Germany and Britain.

So, if you are a smart female, do your bit for the country. Go forth and get pregnant! Because we need more taxpayers to keep the welfare industry solvent and the country afloat

LEGO;

Firstly; as I argued in the 'Carbon Tax' thread support for high immigration is bipartisan. If you have a problem with immigration, then I'm afraid the Liberals in this country aren't going to help you. They only 'dogwhistle' to get people with opinions like yours to support them. Howard depended on Hanson preferences to stay in power, but Abbott turned on the Hansonites because an overt alliance would cost them the 'classical liberal' vote...

Secondly, I've been in the low income demographic most of my life. I know what it's like to struggle. And I've seen the consequences on inadequate health and aged care systems first-hand.

And as I argue in the 'Carbon Tax' thread: forces for reaction will use your fears about minorities to distract you from the fact they want to undermine YOUR rights in the labour market, while changing the tax system to redistribute income from people like yourself to the very wealthy. And undermining public health and education upon which ordinary working class people depend.

All this fear about 'dole-bludgers' is part of that same process - and people will believe arguments against these suppositions are 'ridiculous' simply because their Ideological prejudices are confirmed in the mass media every day. That onerous active labour market programs re: Newstart already exist is a fact. Now Abbott is turning on disability pensioners whose suffering he probably cannot begin to comprehend...

But if a Carbon Tax is complemented by the kind of compensation structure I'm suggesting - the low income people you mention will be better off in terms of their final income and purchasing power.

Finally re: your resentment against immigrants. I understand there is angst in some sections of the community; There is a feeling in some areas that 'Australian community and identity' are in decline, and there are feelings of cultural exclusion. Lashing out against migrants is not the right response, though. What is needed are active policies aimed at promoting inclusion and community for ALL Australians - for migrants AND those born in this country.

...This country is like a drunk; it must hit the “skids” and turn to Jesus before any benefits will flow to the working class.
100 thousand homeless and rising!

"As an ex Housing Commission tenant, I can absolutely assure you that the biggest factor in long term unemplyment by people who are perfectly healthy, is low intelligence."
-LEGO

And I can assure you that this is unmitigated crap - raw intelligence has sod all to do with one's employment prospects. There are dumbasses in Parliament and geniuses shovelling shyt. It doesn't matter how bright folks are, 'coz a high IQ is not typically what employers seek - they'd rather have somebody good looking, positively inclined, with a high emotional intelligence. The fact that they can still smile politely at customers whilst attempting the onerous task of adding two double-digit figures is regarded as a bonus; whereas the fact that they need to stop and think about simple arithmetic should be regarded as a severe mental disadvantage.

So, if you are a smart employer, remember that the shy, surly and clinically depressed are often much more capable employees than the friendly halfwits.

Dear Tristan

I don’t know exactly what “low economic demographic” you ever lived in, probably one where university students struggled to live within their daddy’s generous trust fund while they studied Artz in uni, and sat around in wine bars drinking chardonnay while they mused about the injustices of capitalism. Because it is obvious that your knowledge of the sort of healthy people who make up the bottom layer of our society, and who live permanently on public welfare, is as familiar to you as the dark side of the moon.

I already know that both Labor and Liberal support high immigration for different reasons of political self interest, but at least the Liberals make no pretence about being concerned about the interests of Australian working and genuine disadvantaged class Australians, exactly the sort of “Hansonites” that people like you despise. At least the Liberals had some success in preventing illegal immigrants in chartered boats from just lobbing into Australia in order to declare their undying allegiance to the Australian social security system.

And I don’t need “the mass media” to tell me that large numbers of dole bludgers exist, or that imported foreigners are looting the Australia social security system, the evidence before my own eyes is enough for me. The media is simply confirming what I already know to be a self evident fact. Which is why I get so astonished and amazed whenever a person such as your goodself comes along and tells me that black is somehow white.

Now, getting back to your beloved “carbon tax” which is just another Great Big Tax to support the ever increasing numbers of dole bludgers and illegal immigrants, you can forget it. It is the Australian working class and the genuine disadvantaged class who are hurting right now from steeply rising essential services prices, and they are not going to be overcome with happy passions at the thought of some dimwit, who refuses to even acknowledge what to them is self evident widespread welfare abuse, demanding that the government slap yet another tax on them to pay for it.

Grputland, you were warned. Now where's my fish!

Please do not take silence as people agreeing with you because they're not. You are being politely ignored.

I have been to your website some time back and have saved in in my favourites alongside 9-11 conspiracy, alien abduction, etc.

When the forum discusses matters such as loudspeaker enclosures, I look forward to your informed comments. Until then...

For the record, I am not and have never been a "9/11 truther" or an adherent of alien abduction stories.

Section 82 of the Constitution is not a conspiracy theory or a tall story. It's the law.

Not so long ago, there were many jobs available for those who had various physical or intellectual shortcomings or even those who simply wanted to work.

The decline of the Tea Lady era was the result if the desire for increased profits and the rise of rampant Corporatism where employees became disposable and replaceable units, just like their customers.

The new system works but eventually there are costs to be met and a permanent class of unemployed is probably one of them.

LEGO>>The problem for Australia, is that dumb people are breeding a lot faster than smart people

This is because the dumb people, as you call them, can sit at home, watch TV, smoke pot, or really do what they wish while their kids are at day care FREE OF CHARGE.

Meanwhile, the 'smart people' are off at work, often paying half their days pay for day care.

They soon realise that for them, having children comes at a huge financial cost, so often, they choose not to have children, or at least not the six or seven that the dumb ones often have.

So long as we have a system that rewards the lazy and penalises the worker things will never change.

Trouble is, if we dare mention it, you get shot down as being a dole basher.

Then we have those who recon the solution is to simply increase the top tax rates.

Why, so the lazy can become lazier?

Our main problem is that our welfare sytem is one of 'hand outs', rather than 'hand ups'.

It comes in many forms including first home buyers grants and the baby bonus.

It's a sad world when long term unemployed 'families' have plasmas, playstations and a mobile phone each. Not to mention the odd fob mobile you often see.

Stop the cash and we will solve many of the problems.

Posted by bully, Friday, 8 April 2011 5:58:49 PM......make sure your people here and see what all are entitled to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nxMrRXHqpo&feature=related

This has to stop. But what, and can we!......JOE is right! learn or.............this will continue and nothing will stop them.

LEAP

See why I stopped this here, is show you who the people in dark classes are...but I guess you don't want to hear. Thats OK, no-one else does either. However the greedy ones will be brought to justice, and the planet will be.....I would love to say saved...but we know just that, is not what they want.

So what can we or I do? and Tony Abbott wants to get tough on welfare bludgers. Hear! Hear!..............well tony is just a bludger himself.

Who do you think pays these slippery customers.....its you:) These people are your leaders, and you still cant see! OK, while the world is for living things, that's including you, you just might see who is paying for IT:)

Tony, Tony, Tony! You really know well, how to be original:), and the word prick, is only an accident when sowing.

All the best....Yuck!

LEAPER

Doesn’t the Liberal party have any other ideas to take to an election campaign other than bash the welfare and disability recipients. It seems to me that has been about the only platform they have run on for the last half a dozen elections. Except for the increase the pension age one, preferably to 70years. Yes I know it was the Labour party that took advantage of the Global Financial Crisis to bring this in.

Listen to me people, we are not all living until we are 80years old as government and superannuation companies keep telling us. (for their own purposes). This is how governments and the ruling classes(labour party included) rule without revolution. They convince the public that they don’t want to do it, but it is necessary for the good of the country. I read the funeral notices in the paper every day, all year, and it is obvious that many people die in their fifties, sixties, and seventies from illnesses and old age.

You might as well shoot your old granny and aging mother and father as they succumb to diseases of aging because with the further 2years now added until retirement there will be more old people placed on the disability pension instead of the pension, thus making the numbers even higher. Make no mistake this obsession the liberals have with somehow wiping out the disability pension is all about making old people work until they are 70years old instead of acknowledging that many old people are on there last legs and can’t do this.

This attempting to take the pension away from the workers is another attack on worker’s rights. The so called aging population demographic will be dead in 20years anyway, and with the number of immigrants numbering a medium sized regional town coming in here every year there is no need to raise the pension age because of an aging population or a lack of young immigrant workers.

Of course now Gillard has announced her own get tough on bludgers campaign in an effort to keep up.

I'm inclined to agree with you Cherful. Far fewer babies die today and more old people are preserved till they're very old, but the vast majority of us still have the decency to die at a modest age, preferably, for the system, before we retire.