As I understand it, if Islam is correct homosexuality is a sin and punishable by annihilation. For a homosexual to go on believing in Islam seems rather like a calf singing the praises of beef stew. Much, much better to get out altogether if you can.

Alice any good that may have come from your peice was lost for me as soon as I read the blame the white guys bit, after that I stopped reading.

Kenny wrote: Alice any good that may have come from your peice was lost for me as soon as I read the blame the white guys bit, after that I stopped reading.

I got as far as this rubbish: "Although sex is a natural part of life according to Islam unlike in Christianity which traditionally promotes celibacy, it is generally strictly regulated to take place ideally only between married heterosexual couples".

Christians and Muslims generally agree that ideally sex is between a male and female, married to each other and virgins at marriage. Most Christian faiths, notably not Catholics, further promote marriage of their religious, and the desiability of those religious having child-producing sex with their spouses.

'Although sex is a natural part of life according to Islam unlike in Christianity which traditionally promotes celibacy,'

I can assure you my three kids did not come from Immaculate
conception. It seems that Alice interprets both faiths to fit her dogma.

Even though my own support was with the Athiest float, I loved the Muslim Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Float. Their star performer was undoubtedly a young Muslim man in a purple sequened Burka and sun glasses. He looked fabulous and had a great sence of humour. Given the full television coverage of the Mardi Gras by Arena, I wouldn't be surprised if Muslims Against Homophobia receive some air play in Muslim countries.

If it happens, then that will be a step forward in a community debate about se-xual diversity. In newly liberated Middle Eastern countries, that debate may lead in time to greater tolerance and personal freedoms in their societies. Thanks Alice, for a great article.

This a great step forward in removing some of the prejudices and homophobia in Islam. Like Christianity there is a growing compassion and awareness of the injustice and discrimination experienced by same sex couples. Muslims and Christians alike are finally evolving towards something resembling civilisation.

It has always seemed a paradox that homosexuality should be considered a greater sin than the murder of those homosexuals for no other reason than the love for someone of the same gender.

Wishful thinking, I suspect, Quick response.

>>Given the full television coverage of the Mardi Gras by Arena, I wouldn't be surprised if Muslims Against Homophobia receive some air play in Muslim countries. If it happens, then that will be a step forward in a community debate about se-xual diversity.<<

It wouldn't surprise me a great deal if the Mardi Gras itself made an appearance. Except, it would be in a segment designed to illustrate the utter decadence of Christianity, or something.

The sort of thing that Fred Nile would appreciate - look at the painted weirdos, showing off their utter depravity, you know the schtick.

But I would bet Sydney Harbour Bridge to a house-brick they would avoid presenting images of gay Muslims.

I have to admire your wide-eyed optimism though.

Pelican writes

'Muslims and Christians alike are finally evolving towards something resembling civilisation.

God forbid that we should become so callous as to murder our unborn and use pseudo science to justify our barbarity.

This sounds like a Christophobic essay.

Most historians would laugh at Aslan’s spin: “Some Muslim countries, especially those in the Middle East, had a widespread homosexual culture that tolerated sexual relationships between men. But the moralistic colonial authorities, mostly strict Christians, disapproved of anal sex between men and banned it.”

Haven’t you read the Koran Aslan? Like it or not, it is explicitly anti-homosexual, period. Their views were shaped well before so-called Christian colonialists were near the region too. Nice try though.

It’s also interesting how Aslan equates homosexuality with anal sex, when some homosexuals don’t engage in anal sex, period. Again, nice try.

The poor old homosexual community is in a real quandary about Islam. Traditionally, homosexuals have always been at the forefront of defending minority rights. But then along comes Islam and the queers have a problem, because here is one minority group which makes no bones about their hostility to homosexuality. And who wants to defend somebody who is demanding that you be stoned to death?

Of course, it did not take Alice Aslan long to come out with the old “Blame the White Guys for Everything” explanation as to how Islam is hostile to queers. That is a purely reflexive action for those who have a compulsive need to never blame a minority for anything.

If homosexuals do not want anti homosexual sentiments to grow in their own communities, then supporting the immigration of Muslims, who are intensely hostile to them, is not a good idea. The homosexuals in Europe, who once championed the cause of Muslims, have watched the rise of Islamic anti homosexuality, and they are now starting to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.

But it looks like the Australian homosexuals are still in the denial stage. Their tactic appears to be, to show Muslims that they support Muslims, so the Muslims should support them. Hence Alice tossed in the bit about comparing anti Islamic feelings to anti homosexual feelings. Her implication is, that we are all minorities united against the white racist Australian suburbanites, so we should all stick together. It is doubtful whether such an argument will make much of an impression on Sheik (cat meat) Hilali, who’s concept of right and wrong is so alien, that he even thinks that Australian women have only themselves to blame if they get raped by a Believer.

To admit that Muslims are a real and dangerous threat to yourself, is to admit that the sacred orthodoxies of multiculturalism has been found wanting, and that is a particularly unpleasant bit of crow to eat. Better to just pretend that nothing is wrong, and keep hoping that the Muslims have not started looking yet for the right sized stones.

"Although sex is a natural part of life according to Islam unlike in Christianity which traditionally promotes celibacy, it is generally strictly regulated to take place ideally only between married heterosexual couples"

Wrong once again Alice! Islam & Judaism provide for sex within (heterosexual) marriage ONLY. Punishment for fornication and adultery according to the Laws of both faiths includes death.

Christianity precribes exactly the same thing - except we believe God will consider our actions come the Last Judgement and rule us worthy of everlasting life in Paradise or Hell. Therefore good old fashioned stonings, hangings or beheadings are off the charter for sexual peccadilloes. Social condemnation of one sort or other is usual punishment for run of the mill Christian transgression. Deviant behaviours such as incest, paedophilia, bestiality, force etc remain illegal and punishable under secular law. Of course this included sodomy up until recent times.

Given the attitudes of some of the imported Islamic Clerics we have allowed to slither into our generally tolerant and egalitarian society I am not surprised to read of the burqa clad Moslem gay-boy. Hiding his persona in such a public arena would I think be very prudent. Every chance, if identified, he would have a fatwa taken out against him - or at the least be shunned, reviled, even assaulted by family, friends and peers.

Unless of course he was pre or barely pubescent and a bit of a hottie ... in which case he may well have been the Mullahs favourite ...
It is well known that boys are frequently used and abused 'for pleasure' by adult men in some Islamic countries and the practice is conveniently brushed under the dirty carpet of 'culture' (as is forced marriage of pre-pubescent girls) and ignored by the men of religion.

A natural part of life eh Alice? Say - What's it like in Wonderland these days?

runner
Yes it would be nice in a perfect world to eradicate the need for abortions - maybe a chip in the arm to be taken out when a person decides they are ready to become a parent (men and women alike). Forcing people to have a baby against their will or arguing about when life begins, is a bit different to killing a live person just because they are different to you.

Why do you give greater value to the unborn than to the living? Not sure I understand your reasoning? Same with the death penalty.

Quote, "In the past most Muslim societies were sexually permissive"! Really, when? Who? Alice just uses racist abuse against "Colonials" The Ottoman Turks were the great colonisers of the middle East but Alice is just against Western people?
Not a good look Alice when you are asking Australia to be nicer to minorities

Pelican

'Why do you give greater value to the unborn than to the living'
Simple science will tell you they are living. Speaking on behalf of them is not exalting them above or beneath other humans.

The ridiculous post either ignorantly or deceptively mis representing Christianity got the response it deserved.

Unborn or not, "living" or not, someone espousing old-testament inerrancy cannot object in principle to indiscriminate killing.

When christian churches stop blessing soldiers going to war, I might believe thay had the slightest genuine objection to killing.

Rusty

"Simple science will tell you they are living. Speaking on behalf of them is not exalting them above or beneath other humans."

Yet despite this you continue to argue for the death penalty. I suggest this is a personal view not one that is generally put forth by the Christian faith. I see it is okay for you to cherrypick as it suits.

Ignorant and deceptive are terms usually used in anger when it is clear an argument has no basis - otherwise it would stand on its own merit methinks.

It is interesting that you did not show equal outrage at the suggestion that homosexuals be annihilated as another poster mentioned above.

Pelican you write in defense of the indefensible
'It is interesting that you did not show equal outrage at the suggestion that homosexuals be annihilated as another poster mentioned above.

The simple fact is that homosexuals are not annihilated and if they were I would consider it the same as murderering the unborn. You would find far more Christians being annihilated than those practicing homosexuality throughout the world. Try just a little balance.

"Try just a little balance."

I will if you will.

My understanding was you were for the death penalty - if not it is my memory at fault. Is so apologies.

Since the bible clearly describes the killing of those bearing the unborn, as well as the killing of children , and the rape of young girls, I do not believe a biblical literalist may object to abortion on merely biblical grounds.

The most notable prophet of the hebrews demanded soldiers kill children, civilian women (including those pregnant) and take for their own purposes virgin girls, against the customs of the day.

Such a prophet is not able to have relevance to our society.

Anybody espousing adherence to biblical literalism is unable to make a moral judgement about abortion, or killing in general, without special pleading that constitutes hypocricy.

I think "religion" that does not divorce itself from old-testament barbarism is abhorrent and best lost from our society. Soonest.

Rusty

Just in case anybody does not uderstand the above post, superficially in answer to "runner"'s parody of an ignorant fundy:

The point is that fundy christianity is no basis for objecting to *anything*, being intellectually bereft, let alone such trivial issues as sex, a topic the fundies are more than exceptionally offended by.

Rusty