So before patriarchy came along, women didn't compete for men?

Uh-huh? And how do you think they got the support of men?

JamesH my experiences have obviously been different to yours. I notice many women have a much broader interpretation of feminism than your own narrow view that only sees feminism in terms of the overplayed man-hater variety.

I don't think you have ever said one positive thing about women since you have been on OLO. Using your own criteria maybe you need a microscope too.

But I suspect you and vanna are not interested in two-way self-examination.

You can pretend our society was not formed on a patriarchy - but it is a historical fact - it is how we proceed from here that matters.

Peter Hume
When women had no rights whatsoever, the ony way they could compete or survive was using sex consciously or unconsciously (if that was your implication). Men have always had the power to say no.

Once again I'm depressed that the gender context is treated as a given.
However, Women are absolutely complicit in the gender stakes, and indeed support male institutions like the military, patriotism (soft porn), getting pissed and machismo in general. Nor, in my experience, is their any such thing as comradeship among the ladies, whom I've heard use the "bitch" designation infinitely more often and with far greater malice than men.
Nor are they above exploiting sexual-harassment laws opportunistically. A woman only has to invoke the spectre of harassment. I worked for decades in large factories where the male/female compliment was roughly even doing round the clock rotating shifts. I can assure you, I've seen it all. It wasn't very flattering to either sex, but where the men were often chauvinistic, the women were far more manipulative, even vicious (this, however, is arguably a facet of their subaltern status; where no real power exists, manipulation is the weapon of choice).
On one occasion "I" was offended that in a memo (sent to another company) the female half of the workforce was referred to as "our girls" by management (while men were distinguished by name, or more typically by job description). I tried to get the "girls" to make an official complaint, but I couldn't even get then to see how they'd been slighted.
So I agree with Rosie Williams, women need to stand up and be accountable for themselves, their sex and their society.

Pelican, obviously these FEMALE authors have a different perspective than your rather narrow claim.

Christine Hoff-Sommers, Daphne Patai, Melanie Phillips, Eeva Sodhi, Wendy MeElroy to name a few!

Generally speaking it is not the more mild and moderate feminists, but the rather more radical feminist that drives public policy and debate.

More women talking about their favourite subject...women. All I can say is thank god for patriarchy. Without men we'd still be living in caves.

I noticed this latesat campaign on women not contributing to Wiki. I mean, really. A free, open source puplication that anyone can contribute to and now women are complaining because there are not enough women contributing. Well, patriarchy has well and truely been dead for the last 20-30 years. We have a female PM and G-G AND numerous state based female G-Gs. But women STILL complain about patriarchy. Maybe it's time to just get over complaining and start contributing.

Women have had every opportunity in the last 20 or 30 years to contribute to the technological revolution. A revolution which has changed our lives in ways never seen before in human history. For much of this time women were already outperforming men at school and university. I remember 20 years ago feminists were bleating on about women missing the technological revolution. Once the technological revolution caught up with their desires and provided an opportunity to communicate via facebook, IM and so on women got online with avengeance. But they are not interested the technology per say, just what they can do with it. Men created the IT revolution because they have an innate curiousity: women just aren't as interested in inanimate objects.

PS Who is going to be to first feminist to tell me we would have computers if it were up to women?

Dane, interestingly truthful concept, I suspect the main driver for men to be inventors, is that they want to impress women.

In the stone age, was it not the best hunter who in theory made the most desirable mate? So if a bloke is good at something, what is his driving motivation?