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The Forum > Article Comments > Global Warming Danger: Catastrophic? > Comments

Global Warming Danger: Catastrophic? : Comments

By Geoff Davies, published 8/2/2011

New work by James Hansen shows Antarctic ice melting at an exponential rate leading to 5 metres of sea rise in 89 years.

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curmudgeon "Why bother us with it?"

Because it's another opportunity to berate the unbelievers, by adopting a more then previously hysterical stance.

I don't mind Geoff's rants anymore, it's an opportunity to see religious fervor in our own time, the roots of a new fanatical religion (green).

I imagine this is what it was like in the dark ages when the masses were thrashed into madness about Jerusalem being in the hands of the Islamists and led to the Crusades .. a lot of parallels there.

They too were warned that it was catastrophic, people would burn, freeze, whatever was handy to frighten the masses and control their will.

Anthropologically interesting ..
Posted by rpg, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 10:25:09 PM
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Geoff. My reference to the MWP was not just anecdotal. I referred you to the CO2 Science website where you will find listed and reviewed over 800 papers from several hundred researchers in about a hundred countries. Your statement that it was local and not warmer than the present is totally at odds with the vast majority of research. Maybe your idea of consensus is Jim Hansen and Michael Mann. I notice even Mann now grudgingly admits to a ‘medieval climate anomaly’ as he can no longer deny it.
My reference to a 4 degree fall in temperature at the end of the MWP was clearly stated to be from the GISP2 (Greenland) ice core data. I suggest you look it up. For a start you could try http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/24/easterbrook-on-the-magnitude-of-greenland-gisp2-ice-core-data/
The usual authority on sea level monitoring is the University of Colorado Boulder, not Jim Hansen. They were the source of my statement.
I won’t have space to debate what came first, temperature rise or CO2. Maybe another time. Perhaps now we should just ask you to provide us with some empirical evidence, not computer modelling or theory, that anthropogenic CO2 is causing temperature rise. There are a couple of $50,000 reward offers in the US for the first person to produce such evidence; they have been waiting for quite a while and still no takers.
Posted by malrob, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 10:41:40 PM
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My word, the denialists came out in force for this one. When will they give up? When the sea is over their heads, they are gasping for water, a meal, are expiring from heat exhaustion, freezing to death or are fighting each other for a small piece of whatever they need to survive, being blown away in a Cyclone, burnt in a bush fire
Or will they still be rationalizing that there is a logical reason for their predicament?
Posted by sarnian, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 8:24:56 AM
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Sniggid,

You said "Another alarmist rant from a left of left wing perspective".

I am sorry. Caring for humanity and the planet, whether the information proves correct or not, does not support any claim that Geoff Davies has provided just another leftwing rant.

You would be advised to read past environmental concerns by Henry Kissinger, who most would view as being on the right.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 8:33:00 AM
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Here's a another factor to throw into the complexity of climate.The magnetic poles are shifting rapidly.40 km per yr.This has already reduced magnetic forces by 10%.This means our magnetic shield that reduces solar radiation is letting more energy reach the earth.Scientists are now saying that this shift in magnetic fields is causing severe electrical storms.

Another influence could be that of earthquakes and volcanoes.Imagine billions of tonnes of molten iron shifting beneath our floating continents.

They think that this could be a 1000 yr cycle whereby the magnetic poles swap over.

So to say CO2 is the major influence is foolish in the extreme.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 8:51:44 AM
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Curmudgeon-
Lots of theorising about Hansen's motivations, nothing about the substance of the paper.

malrob-
As I said to Alice: "For evidence that human emissions of CO2 are the main cause of present warming, see my post http://betternature.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/still-warming/ ." More directly, try http://climateprogress.org/2010/08/10/10-indicators-of-a-human-fingerprint-on-climate-change/print/ .

Alice-
The Hansen & Makiko paper doesn't depend on climate modelling at all. They are taking advantage of a natural experiment, conducted by the Earth, with all the complicated physics included and fully accurate - things like moisture levels and cloud formation. It allows the "climate sensitivity" to CO2 to be extracted. The result is that CO2 doubling from present levels will produce a temperature increase of 3 degrees, global average. Strangely enough that is about what climate modellers have been concluding. Without the CO2 feedback, the ice-age variations would have been only about 1.2 degrees.
Posted by Geoff Davies, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 9:24:26 AM
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