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The Forum > Article Comments > What Lies behind Egypt’s Problems? How do They Affect Others? > Comments

What Lies behind Egypt’s Problems? How do They Affect Others? : Comments

By Gail Tverberg, published 4/2/2011

Peak oil in Egypt means that funds are no longer available to cross-subsidise the living standards of the population.

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There may well be a lesson for Australia behind Egypt's woes but I suspect it will be forgotten very quickly. In fact quite the reverse because the captains of industry tell us we must aggressively export carbon fuels while increasing population. The difference between the two countries is that Egypt is staring over the cliff but for Australia the cliff hasn't come into view yet.

Australia will probably 'help out' Egypt by taking a lot of immigrants from there and sending them more wheat on credit which they can't afford. That wheat will be from local production we may eventually have trouble sustaining since Australia will also have expensive fuels, increasing population and erratic seasons.
Posted by Taswegian, Friday, 4 February 2011 8:56:09 AM
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There is no doubt that the figures quoted in the article are correct. The population has increased as is normally the case in Muslim countries and the shortage of food are being spoken of in the streets during this current anti-government demonstration.

The source of some of the information, the CIA Factbook colours the writings somewhat as any mention of CIA, whether Factbook or murder and mayhem is somewhat distasteful to any reader, anywhere.

But putting that aside, by far the greatest contributor to the problems in Egypt, other that the aforementioned population/import/export matters is the urgent need by the great majority for a government that addresses these problems which they have overlooked for decades.

Revolutions, of any kind, just do not happen overnight. It is accepted that the level of graft in ‘favoured’ government circles is very high indeed, the disparity between the very wealthy and the large majority is noticeable. The purchases in the billions of dollars for military armaments, fighter aircraft and the like are seen by the people as a waste of money and a burden that they just cannot afford. Who are they arming against?
They are one of two Arab countries with a peace treaty with the greatest contributor to instability in that part of the world, Israel, with who they appear on the surface to have a friendly relationship but such a relationship is only with Israel and Egyptian government leaders and the elite (wealthy) who profit from such an arrangement. Certainly not the people themselves who, almost universally have an intense dislike of Israel and what they stand for. Quite understandable.

A second factor is the well-publicised criminal role that Egypt engages in on behalf of the US, the rendition, the torure, all of which has now become a profitable industry for Egypt who curry favour in kind from the #1 superpower for such services. That has made America on a par with Israel.

Finally, the average Egyptian relates to the struggle of the Palestinian people and see Mubarak as a Muslim, compromised by Israel.
Posted by rexw, Friday, 4 February 2011 10:20:59 AM
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Most bible scholars agree that Israel will be deserted before all out war. It seems Obama and the Muslim brotherhood are pawns in this. We ain't seen nothing yet. Hopefully enough people will be smart enough to see that God has provided a way out through His Son.
Posted by runner, Friday, 4 February 2011 10:44:33 AM
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Don't believe anything you read on u tube.
Posted by a597, Friday, 4 February 2011 2:16:21 PM
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It isn't just pop pressures,oil etc that creates poverty,it is the debt created by the Western banking system which stops sovereign Govts from creating enough money to equal increases in the productivity of their own people.This new money should be created a tax credit and not as debt.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 4 February 2011 3:55:30 PM
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It seems to me that Egypt is the classical 'family' situation.

But a family has no choice but cut it's expenditure in order to remain in the black.

You cannot spend...what you do not have.

If this means Egypt must prune back the 'lifestyle to which it has become accustomed'.. then so be it. There is only one other solution.. i.e.. WE simply 'give' money to them so they can have a lifestyle they cannot afford.

Wise? I don't think so.

Another approach. Use the Suez canal to 'redistribute' world wealth..seeing as we all benefit from it. i.e.. TAX the ships more.

PROBLEM there is a limit to how much you can do that.

a) It if becomes too expensive, ships will take the long way around.
b) It will be the highest motivation for a pipeline to completely avoid the Suez.

In the end.. if you keep on making babies when you have a single income family and your costs overtake your income.. you are in deep trouble. Self inflicted.

ANOTHER REASON. If you look closely, the problems are simply being exploited by nefarious power hungry elements. Socialists and Muslim brotherhood. It wouldn't matter if the problem was fixed 'tomorrow' such groups would never waste a good ol crisis to take power.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 4 February 2011 7:14:21 PM
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AIR, Rahm Emanuel the Zionist said those words soon after 911."You should never let a good crisis go to waste.You can do things that otherwise you would have never thought possible."

So Bush brought in the Patriot Act with signing statements and Obama has brought in Preventative Dentention.The USA now is a hair's breadth from total facism.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 5 February 2011 5:53:11 AM
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Yes Arjay..."now".....and under Obama.

You might find this vid interesting Arjay

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/becks-matthews-mocked-conspiracy-confirmed-video-of-us-communists-socialists-unions-working-with-muslim-brotherhood-assoc-groups/
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 5 February 2011 10:09:31 AM
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AIR,Glen Beck is the ultimate media whore.His tongue is for sale to the highest bidder.

The Global Reserve Banks are the ones through US Fed who fund and thus control, economic activity and US foreign policy.Obama like Bush is just another puppet.The got their way through the right cover of the Republicans and now via the left cover of Obama.It matters not to them who is in charge for they are just a different shade of puppet.It is highly probable that they are funding the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt since they have the totalitariarn push via religion.

The new World Order facists do not want a truely democratic Govt since they won't be able to control it.We don't have true democracy here because the media determines who the next leader will be.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 5 February 2011 12:21:22 PM
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Obama is a puppet, our next prime minister will be decided by the media.
Where do you get this sort of information from.
Just keep ya eye on that Bush bloke, he may create another 9.11
Posted by a597, Saturday, 5 February 2011 4:07:35 PM
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Arjay... you said nothing about the clear presentation of incontrovertible fact....
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 5 February 2011 8:08:28 PM
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a597 & AIR.Obama promised huge change.It did not happen.He should have put a broom through the old Bush cronies,but he kept them and gave the US Federal Reserve even more power over the US econmy which they have continued to devestate.He is a puppet of Wall St and it's Fed cronies.

Every time we have a prospect of a new leader in this country they have a personal interview with Rupert Murdoch.Tony Abbott had two last year.When Julia Gillard rose to the throne,her first announcement was from the Lowy institute.Frank Lowy was appointed to the Board of the RBA by Paul Keating in 1996 after the rest of the Commonwealth bank was sold off.It was absolutely criminal that Keating let this happen.It is interesting that a few yrs before Frank Lowy was sent a tax bill for $300 million ,the tax office settled for $60 million but settled for $20 million.

The evidenece is all around us that we live in an oligarchy,in which a few powerful elites determine the policy and directions of our Govts.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 6 February 2011 6:51:54 AM
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Arjay
You shown that government control of the money supply is corrupt, that different political parties cannot be trusted to manage it properly, that they unjustly favour powerful vested interests, to the economic devastation of the ordinary people they feed on, and that while democracy may be the starting point, fascism is the end.

Your solution? *Governments* - of all people - should have the power to create money and control credit.

But that’s the system we’ve got now! I think the solution is the opposite – to abolish government control of the money supply.

Underlying the political issues are economic issues. You have obviously bought into the Chicago-school belief that the money supply needs to be increased in proportion to growth in productivity. But when I asked you to prove it, you went silent, and now re-appear running the same argument you were unable to defend.

Please prove it or concede it.

The argument is, that it’s unnecessary for the money supply to be increased in proportion with growth in productivity, because money is a *medium* of exchange. It is money’s *relative* value that’s important, not its absolute value.

Money is a market phenomenon. There is always enough money to perform all the functions of money. It doesn’t need government to adjust its supply.

Government control of money is a history of fraud going back centuries, from coin clipping, to illegalizing competition and charging more than the market rate for coinage services, to legalizing false measures, to fiat money, to licensing loss-making fractional reserve practices – always hand-in-glove with their enablers, the bankers. Fiat money has always ended in hyper-inflation, the destruction of the money unit, social chaos, fascism and war.

Once you concede a monopoly to governments to create money, there is no way to stop that power being exercised corruptly, and always in the direction of corruption and government intrusion into any and every field - fascism.

The irony of it is that the people most horrified by fascism have done most to bring it on by their uncritical belief in the goodness of government power.
Posted by Peter Hume, Sunday, 6 February 2011 9:07:59 AM
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Peter Hume.Who should own our increases in productivity and inflation the money which reduces our purchasing power? A private group of banks or the whole of society who produced it? Our productivity is created as debt by the private banking system when in fact it should be created as a tax credit by Govt Banks for the benefit of all.China's enormous Govt banking system creates 80% of new money for infrastructure,inflation and growth.China can grow at 10-12% pa while the West is lucky to get 2%.The reason? The more more growth we have,the more debt we must incur because our increases in productivity must be borrowed into existance.

This is why western economies are stagnating now and banks are showing enormous profits from bailouts.We borrowed from China $40 billion which caused inflation so the private banking system increased interest rates.We borrowed to pay for our own inflation when the RBA could have become the lender of first resort with no debt.

The whole basis of our economic system is based on a serious flaw.ie that inflation + increases in productivity are created as debt.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 6 February 2011 9:43:53 AM
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Peter Hume;I think you miss unedrstand the totality of what I'm saying.I'm saying that Govts only issue the money as a tax credit for inflation+ increases in GDP.The private banking system still operates but cannot create money from nothing.They can only loan out existing money in the real economy.

We can have safeguards in place so that Govts cannot create too much money on whimsical schemes for self gratification.The other big issue of course is making Govt more accountable to the people.Currently accountability is non-existant.The coroprate influence has made our Govts totally impotent and dyfunctional.Waste and inefficiency is encouraged so Corporates can reap the profits to the detriment of infrastucture,services and a good education system.The Corporates in the long term are destroying their own profitability.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 6 February 2011 11:46:58 AM
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Arjay
I agree with a lot of your analysis about the corruption of money and banking.

We are both agreed that government enables the problem. Where we differ is that you think government is the solution. I think the problem can never be solved by vesting power over money and credit in government.

“We can have safeguards in place so that Govts cannot create too much money on whimsical schemes for self gratification.”

No we can’t; the only and best safeguard is to abolish government control of the money supply.

You keep assuming “we” are the government and the government is us; as if the state is society and society is the state. This is just the standard false belief that enabled the Fed and RBA to be set up in the first place – the idea that the state represents society. If that’s true, you have no ground for changing anything, because the state presumptively represents the greater good.

Rather, the state is the subset of society who claim a legal monopoly of crime.

“Who should own our increases in productivity and inflation the money which reduces our purchasing power? A private group of banks or the whole of society who produced it?”

This continues the group-think that is causing the whole problem in the first place. Increases in productivity belong to the people whose property they are. They do not belong to the state nor to society as a whole.

“Our productivity is created as debt by the private banking system..

That is confused. *Productivity* means producing more outputs with the same inputs. It has nothing *intrinsically* to do with creating money, tax or debt.

“…when in fact it should be created as a tax credit by Govt Banks for the benefit of all.”

There you go again, assuming that government acts for the benefit of all, when the original problem is that this assumption is obviously wrong.

The only way to achieve the results you are trying to achieve is to ABOLISH GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THE MONEY SUPPLY.

For an excellent plain-English explanation, see:
http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf
Posted by Peter Hume, Sunday, 6 February 2011 4:47:43 PM
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Peter,you cannot separate productivity ,money supply and debt.Money is the medium of exchange which enables productivity.Debt is the price of money.Increases in GDP should not be expressed as debt but as a credit for all members in society.

Another system of banking would be to allow private banks that are mutual societies to create new credit (ie no share holders).The depositors and mortage holders then become beneficeries.We could also like North Dakota have Govt banks create credit for infrastucture etc.This state has an operating surplus and a very healthy bank.Our Govts can be made accountable with a proper constitution which we do not have.

We borrow 30% of our mortgage money from Global reserve banks who just create it from nothing anyway.This is why we have such a bad balance of payments deficit.It is about sovereignity Peter and countries in the West have never had.We have been always tied to this system of bank serfdom hence never realise our true potential.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 6 February 2011 7:11:42 PM
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“Peter,you cannot separate productivity ,money supply and debt.”

Yes you can. They *can be*, but are *not necessarily* related.

For example, people without money, like traditional Aborigines, could increase their productivity by damming a creek to create a fish trap. Similarly, people in a money economy can still increase their productivity without reliance on money or debt, for example a farmer ploughing his field in a more efficient pattern. And people using money as a medium of exchange could increase productivity, for example by figuring out transport by road is cheaper than by rail, but with the money nevertheless not playing an enabling role other than by enabling such calculation.

So productivity has not necessarily got anything to do with money supply or debt. It’s only government that connects them; but NOT for good reasons, as you yourself argue.

“Debt is the price of money.”

No it’s not. Interest is the price of money. Debt is an amount owed.

“Increases in GDP should not be expressed as debt but as a credit for all members in society.”

If a farmer increases his productivity by ploughing his field in a more efficient pattern, or a manufacturer by making more widgets with the same inputs, why should you or I get a credit for it?

Why should it have anything to do with money and credit?

“It’s about sovereignty…”

Why should it be about the sovereignty of political institutions to exploit and rip off their subject populations? Why shouldn’t it be about the SOVEREIGNTY OF THE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE TO CHOOSE what they will offer or accept as money or credit?

You still haven’t given any reason why money or credit should be controlled by government, and plenty of reasons why they shouldn’t.
Posted by Peter Hume, Sunday, 6 February 2011 9:09:42 PM
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The problem is that, starting with Nasser and the Arab League, most Middle Eastern governments developed essentially socialist economies, owing to Cold War alliances with the Soviet Union. Egypt, amongst others, has the same disease which did for Eastern Europe in the 1990s: corruption, autocracy, and inability to adapt. Western Europe's influence steered development towards democracy and capitalism, and (with exceptions) former client states were able to raise the standard of living for their populations. In the Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan ... autocracy, theocracy, and command economies are viable alternatives. Democracy and capitalism don't get a look-in. As Greg Sheridan noted recently in The Australian, we need to push Egypt in the direction taken by Malaysia and Indonesia — Muslim countries which have adopted democracy and made space for free enterprise. Don't quite see how it can be done, but I don't see any alternatives, either.
Posted by donkeygod, Sunday, 6 February 2011 10:12:43 PM
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"we need to push Egypt in the direction taken by Malaysia and Indonesia — Muslim countries which have adopted democracy and made space for free enterprise." donkeygod

Malaysia is not a democratic country because

(i)they practice race-based politics in that Malay Mulsims are given special status like preferrential admission to universities, subsidies in housing, economic privileges in many things.

(ii) Like their Muslim brothers/sisters all over the Islamic world, it is either against the law for a Muslim to leave his/her religion or the Islamic government has made it almost impossible for them to change their religion.

Even if the government finally agrees to a Muslim leaving Islam, the imam (Muslim religious leader) would get the person murdered in the name of Islam and the police just close an eye to the murder.

Indonesia is worse than Malaysia because there are parts of it under sharia law where they stone to death adultery suspects and cut off hands for shop lifting.
Posted by Philip Tang, Monday, 7 February 2011 12:30:45 AM
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just..e-gypts last pharro ...has accumulated between one billion to two billion ...*per year for each of his 30 years running his zionist friendly fiefdom..

here we have your typical armed forces plutocracy
we have the haves ...and the have nots
a de-liberated perversion

franchised planed prison
run by colluding cartel and usefull idiots or yes men
via rigged eletions and biased media fear and by threat of force

the state of play indicated the have-nots are increasing...and the have it all's are decreasing...and its now the educated feeling their riches slip from their grasp..

the thing is you need many serfs to supply the needs of one elite

thats the basic problem..[globally]..and as many have revealed..at its root is greed and lust for credit..[not so much money...as having credit to avail availability to all the money many could only use in multiple lifetimes]

govt does not issue money..that franchise was gifted to the money changers longago..and yes they can make as much as they can lend[at intrest]..to those aspiring riches...but the fact is while they can create it..they dont create the intrest that needs be repaid..[by others defaulting]

but that is only part of the problem in e-gypt
the true issue is outside meddeling...[yes usa and israel..world bank arms industry and many other quasi govt/private..agencies]

israel needs a puppet
willing to betray his own people..!

willing to faculitate the erradication..of semites..by impoverishment and starvation and genetic mutative arms use..in builtup areas..[prison camps/gulages]..where the aim is directly at the indigenous poor..or fast bering impoverished middle class..

its global

as the scum runs who caused the real problems...run from the wars
they move to cuntries like australia..who even sends jets to get out the guilty..[often holding mulitple [passorts...and usually having mulitple credit cards..and fiends in low places..but high office]
Posted by one under god, Monday, 7 February 2011 7:57:09 AM
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“Debt is the price of money.
No it’s not. Interest is the price of money. Debt is an amount owed. "

Actually, it's neither. Under the world economy, Money and Debt are the same thing. Without debt, there would be no money and while there is more debt than money in the economy, interest can never be fully repaid.
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 1:19:48 AM
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good point wobbles

but lets egsamin this further
in the news i hear the egypt pound?
has devalued..[30 percent?]..

this indicates a lot of egyptian pounds are leaving egypt

further that public servants
and pensions shall rise [35 percent]
this is through inflation

inflation as we all know..is theft of those owning/holding the devalued currency...ie the very people trying to achieve the inpoossable..[ie remove the pharro] or is it parriah

anyhow the devaluation is great
it indicates the powers that be are moving stuff out of egypt

further the devaluation will make things harder for the poor
thus they will rebel in larger numbers..meaning even worse oppresioon..meaning more shall see the scum for what it is

the rich think the poor are mindless
oh well never mind..it couldnt happen here...lol

what goes on in egypt couldnt possably affect us here
couldnt possably go global

thats what we/they bought out the media for
bankers aint they clever
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 2:53:31 PM
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> “Debt is the price of money.

>>No it’s not. Interest is the price of money. Debt is an amount owed. "

>>>"Actually, it's neither. Under the world economy, Money and Debt are the same thing. Without debt, there would be no money and while there is more debt than money in the economy, interest can never be fully repaid."

That is incorrect. It is true that under a fiat money regime, governments *monetise the debt* and in that sense money and debt are "the same thing". But that is neither in the nature of money, nor in the nature of debt. It's in the nature of government ripping off the population.

There is nothing about money or debt that intrinsically requires the monetising of debt. It would not happen if people were free to choose. It is entirely an artefact of government, not of money or debt.

For example, if government's monopoly were abolished, the money that would most probably emerge from people's voluntary choices is gold, silver and copper. So it is not true that "Without debt, there would be no money". Without fiat money, people would most probably choose precious metals as a medium of exchange, and this would have no *direct* bearing on the amount of debt. The current direct relation between money and debt is entirely an artefact of government criminality.

As for, "while there is more debt than money in the economy, interest can never be fully repaid."
how would you prove that? And how does that prove or disprove whether debt is the price of money?

In any event, the cure for the problem of excessive debt being cranked up as part of the creation of money, is the same: to abolish government control of the money supply.
Posted by Peter Hume, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 3:21:09 PM
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Once again, it is asserted by the actions of USA and Israel that democracy in certain parts of the world is not in the best interests of the USA and Israel." While it will be readily admitted that the current regimes in the Middle East suppress freedom, these regimes are believed to also suppress a far worse alternative: the radicals and fundamentalists who might win democratic elections. The message is clear from USA and Israel. It is better to deal with a Middle Eastern dictatorship that is the friend of USA and Israel than a democratic regime that is their enemy. One thing is for sure this development in Egypt will prove many points and illusions to the Arab world that, USA will support democracy in Middle East only for material gains. As long as they have the Arab Kings and dictators who play puppets to USA and serve their cause with regards to Israel they will close the eyes on the atrocities committed by them. Time for the whole Arab to wake up and realize the intentions of USA and Israel. Call for liberation from the monarchism and dictatorships and strive in the way of popular governments through democracy
Posted by Shaik, Tuesday, 8 February 2011 5:50:26 PM
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Peter,

Fair enough. However I think that the unlikely abolition of fiat money and going back to some sort of pre-medieval system based on carrying around bits of metal would result in debt being the least of our problems.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 1:11:54 AM
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The radical camp in the Middle East is gaining strength, Ashkenazi warned, adding that "the moderate camp among the traditional Arab leadership is weakening."

He also made note of what he characterized as the "fascinating phenomenon" whereby power is shifting to the people of the region thanks to online social networks.

The army chief said that in the wake of the growing threat of radical* Islam among Israel*s neighbors,

the defense budget
would have to be boosted in the coming years.

Commentary:
"Radical Islam?"

I would point out that Iran became an Islamic state in 1979 and from that day to this have not invaded anyone.

Not one. Nada. Zip. Not even once.

This stands as quite a contrast to the Jewish state, Israel, which attacked Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, along with assassinations like the screw-up in Dubai and attacks on humanitarian aid flotillas in international waters.

Then there is the United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, which since 1979 has attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 6:24:48 AM
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wobbles
Well that's really argument by assuming what's in issue and name-calling.

If the alternative to fiat money is so bad and “pre-mediaeval”, then there’s no need for fiat money to be maintained by criminalizing the competition, is there? People would *voluntarily* prefer government inflation-paper to sound money? Obviously not!

People carry around bits of metal today as money. There would be no more need of it with sound money– that’s how banknotes originated.

“… [a non-fiat-money system] would result in debt being the least of our problems.”

This implies that fiat money provides us lots of benefits and solves lots of problems. It doesn’t. It is just fraud, simple as that. It provides no social benefits, and enormous economic, social and moral disadvantages.

“the unlikely abolition of fiat money”
There is nothing *economically* difficult about abolishing fiat money. Any nation could adopt sound money at any time.

The difficulties are political – the elite don’t want to give up a privilege by which they can quietly parasitise the rest of the population while ever the population raise no protest about it, or indeed wrongly believe it to be beneficial.

But the political difficulties in turn depend on public opinion and, as Egypt is showing, ‘There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come’. The abolition of slavery took place in a short time, as did the fall of the Soviet Union.

There is no sound ethical or economical reason why fiat money should not be abolished. It should not be defended, it should be condemned, it is a prime cause of bad government the world over. The world would be more peaceful, more prosperous, more free and more just without it.
Posted by Peter Hume, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 8:55:46 AM
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"Time for the whole Arab to wake up and realize the intentions of USA and Israel. Call for liberation from the monarchism and dictatorships and strive in the way of popular governments through democracy" Shaik

If it were possible for a Islamic country to be truly democratic and Islamic, the country would have been Pakistan.

Pakistan was founded on the ideal land of the "spiritually pure and clean". The implication was that the Muslims of British (colonial)India wanted to keep themselves "pure" and uncorrupted by the Hindus. They have to be physically separated and living in a different land.

Islam is a politcal ideology invented to mentally enslave its followers by threatening them with a fear of "hell" by some kind of a monotheistic "god".

What lies behind Egypt's problem is what lies behind all Islamic countries.

The more Islamic they are the less democratic they become. Mobs go around burning temples, synagogues, churches, etc. They become intolerant and violent in the name of "religion".
Posted by Philip Tang, Wednesday, 9 February 2011 12:56:20 PM
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An interesting article by ex-USA ambassador to Malaysia.

This is typical of an Islamic country which discriminates against non-Muslims. A mass migration of its talents, most of them are non-Muslims. Then the economic rot starts, later it becomes a failed state like Pakistan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704422204576129663620557634.html
Posted by Philip Tang, Friday, 11 February 2011 12:59:19 AM
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the last pharo*has resigned

[i think the first out of the last 3 leaders
not to die from an asasination...

of this let the egyptians be proud..
this was done*together..with-in..peace and love

but now what next
while you celibrate..the powers that were plot

apparently the army is running things now
it thus means there shall be some declarations
martial law or whatever..THIS MUST BE AVOIDED

there needs to be a return to nornmality..as it should have been
but not business as usual...as the army is now [again]..in full control..it must be seen to be*an equal oppertuinity leader

thus the high command must be appointed..
as being sepperate from the command..

a defacto seperation of powers if you will...it is likely that all the high rank[commisioned]officers be.*.appointed to a new command..[civilian]..

with no mil ranking..
no ability to issue legal order..to non com

the army must now mix into the population..to re-establish a new order

it is likely best ..that the reg army issue id and credit to all the population..and establish governance districts..charged with protecting law and order..

but mainly providing for the peoples immediate needs..[food shelter communications protection]and protection of their assets

army should issue credit/id cards to allow for the basics to be provided..

the new way must work locally..likely via schiool district..or based arroud where the people get services..shop etc

it is imperitive that their presence on the streets be ongoing
that any leaving be respected and recieve id recompensation if required..

the best marters are those who survive..
as death demeans the life giving god

let us say be proud..but be wary
recall the fall of comunism..made billionares and the fall of apartheid fixed nothing..*for the poor[who are yet poor]

it is likely best that coins[coin-age]..*be revalued to distribute wealth..let the fiat-system continue..as it is..but that the coin system ..be ursury free..srving ALL.

i penny to equal one pound
10 cents = 10 dollars..
[coins eventually shall be made locally..issued locally..used locally]

as needed
to rebuild*infastructure and supply
and free-movement ...meet peoples needs
education/food/shelter/communication etc
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 12 February 2011 5:02:19 AM
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