Foyle you wrote:

<<The evidence that would satisfy me that a god exists would be if the evidence showed that the Epicurus long aphorism is wrong . In case you do not know it it is,

If god is willing to prevent evil but unable
Then he is not omnipotent
If he is able but not willing he is malevolent
If he is both able and willing
Whence cometh evil
If neither able nor willing
Why call him god.>>

I'll return, in time, (God willing!) with a fuller response to Epicurus's aphorism. In the meatime I invite you to contemplate the the following questions:

Is it always true of a human-being who is capable of preventing harm that they are “malevolent” if they do not prevent harm? Are you saying that you cannot think of a single example? Think: “lesser of two evils”.

salaams

If people facing a cyclone were offered a choice of a church full of believers praying for their deliverance or a platoon of tradesmen able to shore up their shelters, which would they choose? Glenn C.

Interesting query Glenn.

Regardless of falling short of carpentry skills myself, and not agreeing with prayer necessarily working within church dwellings themselves, and the fact that I conduct my own prayers for others and sometimes myself, it would be neither.

A bricklayer, Concreter or Stonemason for me thanks.

True Vanna, yet the European way, and I have friends of European origins, is the option of the old barter system 'I will help you with your needs, safety tasks or luxury items, if you help me with some of mine'. I have a few friends whereby for years have traded on numerous occasions fairly [I throw in a few extras in my spare time with one of them]. The odd things don't work out, however, most of us would not have some basic safety needs met had we not assisted one another.

weareunique,

I think you have it there. Prayer can be used for others if someone cannot actually be there to help them. If someone is in need, but you can't actually be there to help them, then what do you do?

Say "Oh well".

No, I think something extra can be done, and by praying for the other person, it gives them hope.

I find it interesting that so many academics such as Dawkins condem religion and prayer, when they live so much from the public purse.

And when they need money, they expect the public to automatically and readily hand it over to them.

Grateful, (and runner and other usrd)
If you really are interested in proof of human evolution read Robert Ardrey’s books for a start, ‘African Genesis’,’The Territorial Imperative’ and ‘The Hunting Hypothesis’. Ardrey's assembly of 24 lines of evidence that A. africanus was an armed hunter are particularly interesting and, to me, convincing.

I obtained from the University of Michigan site, a chart of the fossil record tracing the evolution of man from australopithecus afarensis through A. africanus, homo habilis, H. erectus, H.heidelbergensis to Homo sapiens.

Each of the classifications shown have been verified by the excavation of several different fossils and dated by several different technical processes for age determination.

The results are accepted by all reputable scientists in various specialist fields. You prefer the claims of an ancient who knew nothing of modern science and the views of those of this era who have learnt nothing from the scientists, writers and thinkers of the last 1500 or more years.

The variations between each of the above classifications are only small and in total, over some five million years, amount mainly to a straighter back and gradual increase in height, better walking and running capability, increased brain capacity and changes in skull shape to accommodate the larger brain.

There is so much proof of evolution of humans available that doubters of human evolution are classified as un-sinkable rubber duckies.

Weareunique, you say that when confronted by a need for assistance to survive a physical threat to your place of shelter, you would choose neither prayer nor the help of tradesmen because you would prefer the assistance of “A bricklayer, Concreter or Stonemason”. As all three are tradesmen, I have no idea of what point you are making.

Vanna, the problem with prayer is that it doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter whether you are praying that something nice will happen to yourself or to others. Are you not aware of the Templeton Foundation’s disastrous, failed attempt to prove that intercessory prayer works? In case you are not, of three groups of ill people prayed for by people in a range of churches, the ones that did not know they were being prayed for showed no benefit and the group that did actually went backwards.

As believers are repeatedly asked, and always refuse to answer, why do you refuse to pray to God to grow a new limb on an amputee?
Your complaint about Dawkins being paid by the public for his books and presentations is simply weird. Why do you think his being paid is different from when other authors and public figures are paid for their work?