2. The solid historical evidences for Jesus Christ.

The “minimal facts” approach to the Resurrection persuades me. History doesn’t give us certainty, but as far as the evidence goes I believe it points towards the Resurrection of Jesus. Perhaps you may argue Ockham’s Razor, or that miracles are infinitesimally unlikely, but as far as the historical evidence around that event goes, it confirms all the things that we’d expect it to confirm if Jesus did in fact rise.

3. The specific Christian version of the nature of humanity and the human condition is very accurate, and Jesus provides the perfect answer- the only satisfactory answer to this that I’ve seen. There are suggestions to be found within humanity which point to the fact that we long for an answer.

<Religion is a purely emotional experience, not a considered/rational conclusion.>

But- and this was my point- you can only say that once you’ve proven it to be the case. You can’t say it if you simply rave on about psychology.

<Do you not see any significance in the fact that they virtually always choose the predominant religion in their culture?>

Is it also significant that many atheists are caught in the young university group-think bubble? Peter Hitchens and A N Wilson have said they used to be caught in that hype.

I can talk about the psychology study which suggested many atheists dislike the idea of a father.

I can talk about the fact that although God is deemed to be a loving God, he is also a judge. There is a strong current of the idea of judgement running through the whole Bible. God holds people morally accountable for their actions. Many people are disturbed, emotionally, by this idea.

(tbc)

Many don’t like the idea that God, if he exists, is more powerful than you or I, and sovereign. Depending on definitions of sovereignty this can be disturbing to people- think Christopher Hitchens and his “celestial North Korea” issue.

None of this confronts the arguments against theism and for atheism, though. And neither do your talk about indoctrination and culture. Check out dangerousidea.blogspot.com and skim the months of November and December- Victor Reppert has spent a lot of time discussing these issues recently.

<I witnessed a lot of conversions to Christianity in my church-going days>

They don’t all result from the above- there are plenty for whom intellectual considerations play a part.

Also, it isn’t implausible that God could use the above situations to draw people to him.

Finally, plenty of atheists are rather emotional about it all, are they not? Plenty give emotional reasons, certainly not strong intellectual ones, for their atheism.

<After reading the Bible he came up with his famous trilemma, which was actually a quadrilemma with the fourth (and most likely) ‘L’ being ‘legend’; yet he failed to mention that one.>

That depends what you mean by legend- his existence or the exact words he spoke?

Have you seen how bad the arguments from the Jesus mythers are? They put the flat earthers to shame in the “I have a silly argument, come listen to me” stakes!

<Because it doesn’t violate Occam’s razor; a reason why it’s also more rational too.>

Theism’s advantage, in my view, lies mainly in its explanatory power and it’s advantage in the area of epistemology. Also, I doubt that God is as complex as many atheists imagine. Richard Dawkins, for example.

(tbc)

<Atheists don’t NECESSARILY say that no gods exists. >

Agreed but MOST do- which was my counter point to David- who suggested that most DON’T. It is clear that many atheists consider David’s definition is bunk- that’s even been shown in this discussion alone.

<Atheism/theism go to what you believe, while gnosticism/agnosticism go to what you know>

I understand this but I believe that further clarity is brought to the issue by having three categories.

<Anyone who genuinely doesn’t know what they believe here is a pretty fickle-minded person>

Nonsense! Complete and utter nonsense!

As for your questions:

<1. That depends on how you define “god”.>

Here is a Christian version I’ll propose. It may be too narrow for some Christians and too broad for others, but I think it strikes a good balance for philosophical discussions and contains some basic theological ideas. God is an all powerful, all knowing being who created and sustains the universe and who cares about humans and intends on showing them the truth which is mostly and primarily found in Jesus.

<Evidence, put simply, is just a reason to believe or disbelieve something>

Agree.

Background beliefs and presuppositions play a huge part in this. Life experiences can be evidence, arguments can be evidence, facts can be evidence. Strong intuitions can even be evidence if we see little reason to doubt them. Faith isn’t opposed to evidence- it can go beyond evidence (that is, there are some places evidence can’t take you, by definition) or it can be informed by evidence

Peter D makes an interesting point. If people stopped believing in God we could dispense with atheism altogether.

HuH,

So Peter D is saying that if I say I don't believe in ET then I really believe that ET is real?! Me thinks he is playing semantics, just because atheists might say "there is no God" is merely a courtesy to those who believe. The subtext is there is NO supreme being!

Trav please provide some information that supports your claim "History doesn’t give us certainty, but as far as the evidence goes I believe it points towards the Resurrection of Jesus".

I don't believe there is anything that I am aware of that would substantiate your claim but would be happy to consider.

YOU have had personal experience of some event that you attribute to God. However, the irony is that reinforces the concept of a God who only responds to a chosen few...not very fair is it? Peter King.

It is fair Peter.

How is God able to feature in a 'non-believer's' life and/or if one shuts God and entourage out completely and/or if a person ridicules God and God's very existence as the ALL Creator having or not bothering to try faith [in God].

The reason 'being' that any person who opens up their heart and soul to God and has faith in God will receive the love and answers that God and only God is able to give.

Whether one seeks assistance through prayer, good deeds and believes at the same time in God, taking time out in their busy lives to think about all God created, following Commandments to the best of ones ability, via individual personal avenues; most people who believe in God, will receive the assistance they have requested in God's own time and using God's best judgement for all concerned.

My own personal belief for the end of 2010 and 2011 spiritually, is that we as Australians are all going to be tested and brought back down to earth in practical terms materialistically to stamp out egomania, gross selfishness, corruption, superficiality, to allow people to experience a more in depth love for others, particularly people who have not learned how to be 'there' for others or 'feel' for others, apart from their own families and cliquiness/groups.

God would have known this fact a long time ago.

Without the intervention of faith/belief and prayer, lives will be sacrificed in order for people to learn or FEEL love for others, and I pray its not any more innocent childrens lives taken/sacrificed within these devastating lessons