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The Forum > Article Comments > The deluge was totally predictable, so why weren't we warned? > Comments

The deluge was totally predictable, so why weren't we warned? : Comments

By Keith Kennelly, published 14/1/2011

Floods in south east Queensland were caused by normal weather patterns in an extraordinary confluence with predictable results.

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Yes the google expert trumps the learned scientist once again. Can you please tell us what next weeks loto numbers are going to be while your at it?
Posted by Kenny, Friday, 14 January 2011 9:13:22 AM
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the explanation of what happened by this amateur sailor sounds reasonable, but to blame so many people for being 'unprepared' doesn't.

if these troughs, depressions, monsoonal events and strong sub-cyclonic winds weren't noticed by the bean counters at the Bureau of Meteorology, maybe it's because they were distracted by other things, like rising river levels quickly flooding one town after another so maybe some slight panic occurred because the word 'normal' didn't seem to apply to a 'once in a century' event. Plus lack of a coordinated response, plus the release of water from the Wivenhoe Dam perhaps at the wrong time, but who knows, really, but maybe it'll all come out in the wash.

All we need is for another 'expert' or two to lecture us on why we should build more dams to check floods.
Posted by SHRODE, Friday, 14 January 2011 10:59:19 AM
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It's all well and good saying "it could have been predicted" after the fact and, as such, I'm afraid there will always be doubters. I don't know enough about meteorology to support or contradict you, but I do wonder with how much conviction you forecasted that this would happen. It's one thing saying it COULD happen, and another altogether saying it WILL or even MOST LIKELY WILL happen.

To be honest, the fact that the BOM missed this one doesn't rattle my faith in them all that much. Here in the tropical summer, the BOM is an essential part of life. I find that they tend to err on the side of caution - blow things out to be worse than they actually are. On Christmas day, we were told we would have anywhere up to 600mm of rainfall. In most parts, the falls were less than 100mm. We tend to be over-prepared rather than under-prepared. If the Bureau says they couldn't predict this with ample time to put warnings out, I tend to believe them.
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 14 January 2011 11:12:46 AM
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Gee, that was quick. Half of Queensland is still under water and this guy is blaming the BOM, media and Government.

This is going to sound awful and so 18th century but there are some things that are beyond human agency to know. This is one of them.

One day, maybe we'll be able to predict with 100 percent accuracy weather outcomes - about the same time everyone in Australia can predict Saturday night's Powerball results.

With this one, the proper course of action for the next seven days is to dig deep in to your wallet and give generously to our Queensland mates.
Posted by Cheryl, Friday, 14 January 2011 12:04:25 PM
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"WHY BUILD DAMS WHEN THERE WILL BE NO RAIN?"
Anyone else remember this insanity from the pro-AGW lobby? What happened to the continuous drought predicted by the Green movement??
All is quiet,now, as if these things were never said.

Anna Bligh built a prohibitively expensive desalination plant partly because of the 'endless drought' fears generated by climate change activism which has invaded climate science. Had dams been built two problems would have been mitigated, flooding and water supply.

No-one is learning from their mistakes. That is the problem. The opinion of the same fools will be believed again.

A similar flood happened in 1974 and it will happen again. To that extent it is a predictable event. After 1974, measures were taken and a dam was built to mitigate against flooding. This time nothing will be done other than a argument and the Greens stopping any development which benefits Australia.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 14 January 2011 12:31:25 PM
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The Wivenhoe dam did precious little to help, mainly because avaricious 'developers' & their political beneficiaries chose to keep building on known flood plains. Far too many residents had extremely poor memories and / or they swallowed hook, line & sinker, the popular political / bureaucratic spiel 'trust us'. Personally I'd rather trust a deadly snake than any politician or bureaucrat.
Posted by kadaitcha, Friday, 14 January 2011 3:50:10 PM
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With AGW you will get it both ways, prolonged drought and More intense rain. What would make you think it would only go one way. Look at the type of climate england & america is having. If that is not a shift in climate, what else do you call it.
Instead of a one in 100 yr event, we better make it one in 15 yr event.
Unless you have empty dams, they are useless in avoiding a flood.
Posted by 579, Friday, 14 January 2011 4:09:35 PM
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It seems I'm in grand company as I suppose being insulted as a goole expert ranks higher than biblical creationist, freemarketeer, cake eater, not of a prodigious intellect, a fake clairvoyant, 'a middle class wannabe's getting (my) their panties in a twist' BUT most of all not a green voter.

Kenny don't you ever have a positive to say about anyone who doesn't share your views?
Posted by keith, Friday, 14 January 2011 4:32:46 PM
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Two different weather fronts caused weeks of rain for those QLD towns followed by the heavy rains that La Nina produced.

Similar to bushfires started with the 'right conditions' and many natural disasters; no-one can predict the eventual outcomes. Hail is not always easy to predict other than the white developments and sudden drop in temperatures just prior to the drop.

I follow weatherzone and the BOM live satellites and radars for indications on the day, when planning a trip or outdoors event, and have picked up on the fact over the years, that variations in weather patterns previously likely to occur, can change direction within a short period of time, and include other towns or places or not occur at all.

Until rains and storms commence, it is only fair to be honest and acknowledge, that no-one ever knows what the potential consequences will be to pre-soaked or saturated rivers, creeks and dams unless community volunteers agree to keep a close eye on these during La Nina events, Lows, Troughs, and other publicised weather events, some lasting weeks and months.

However, many communities receive no prior warning of the extent of mother nature's outcomes that may result from Troughs, Lows, La Nina and El Nino.

An example of the point raised above.

During droughts I have witnessed incredible weather rarities on properties such as tornadoes, mini tornadoes, hail storms, heavy rains over certain properties, high humidity in one or two certain areas, none of which were indicated on live satellites.

On certain sections of a couple of highways regularly travelled over many years, storm clouds and hail clouds are situated over certain grazing properties at certain times of the year. The heavy rain and hail drop only over these couple of properties and that particular section of the highway, located 300 ks from one another. This event has continued a few times during winter droughts, and on a couple of occasions during the summer months [also during droughts].

Nothing on satellites or radars have ever indicated the buildup.
Posted by we are unique, Friday, 14 January 2011 10:40:51 PM
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The Wivenhoe Dam did precious little to help? Really?

It is still sitting (or was this morning) at 186% capacity. That's 100% of water storage for use, and 86% of flood mitigation water. That's a lot of water that hasn't yet travelled downstream, thanks to the dam. According to various spokespeople from various authorities in the media, at the time Brisbane and Ipswich started sandbagging there was two thirds more water travelling into the dam than was travelling downstream in the '74 floods. The dam managed to slow and add some control to that water flow.

As for greedy developers, it must be remembered that flood maps and models are readily available to people buying land. My own parents had to jump through all sorts of hoops to prepare their land (a possible run-off path during heavy rain) before council would let them build. I do find it absurd that people would invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in their McMansions without investigating the potential hazards.
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 14 January 2011 10:49:53 PM
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"I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains."
-Dorothea Mackellar

We should help out when folk need help. We should count our blessings - recent flooding in Brazil has killed over 200 people, somewhat higher than our own death toll. And we should stop looking to lay blame - nobody could have predicted this without 20/20 hindsight, and no amount of solar panels and hybrid cars would have prevented it. It's a national disaster and you're squabbling like children. How sad.

I still love this sunburnt country, even when it is a complete prick. And despite the devastation they cause, I wouldn't trade her droughts and flooding rains for all the tea in China. Her beauty and her terror - the wide brown land for me.
Posted by Aleister Crowley, Saturday, 15 January 2011 2:47:38 AM
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Ah yes, right on cue.

As the elation of community support and stories of individual courage and survival - Phase 1 - peaks, we begin the inevitable Phase 2 - recrimination and blame.

Next will come anger at all levels of government, land developers, greedy contractors and other profiteers who will drive up building costs nationally, inflation and finally, the effect on interest rates.
Posted by rache, Sunday, 16 January 2011 12:45:30 AM
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so why weren't we warned ?
Is this argument for real ? 1890, 1974 and also several other very high flooding ain't sufficient warning ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 16 January 2011 7:49:47 AM
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Traditional wet season, extremely positive SOI ('big' little girl), series of low pressure cells off coast, active Walker and Hadley cells, very warm ocean temperatures to 200 m. BOM was expecting this - you can lead an ass to water, you can't make it drink. The blame game has begun.
Posted by bonmot, Sunday, 16 January 2011 2:51:20 PM
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Keith, Mates will be mates and Inigo Jones (rip) dosn't get a mention, no surprise?
Posted by Dallas, Sunday, 16 January 2011 10:34:01 PM
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