Pericles, a long delay in rsvp-ing.

I agree with this below, but might extend it beyond Y6 (actually Y7 in Qld) to include most, if not all, of the high school years too:

"Maybe it's a State issue, but here in NSW the public school system up to Year Six would appear, at first glance, to be appallingly ossified in its organizational mediocrity. The result is that - even within the same school - it will be entirely a matter of luck whether your child is taught well or badly."

I doubt she lied. I don't know the detail of the NSW system but I'd be surprised it it was vastly different to Qld. Here school principals (sorry about the 's error before) do have some say in who comes, stays or goes.

However, no matter what 'restrictions' are seen to be in place, there is a well known, strongly held, 'court approved' reality that it is both the right and responsibility of management to manage.

It may well be seen to be an 'arduous' process, but it's there to be used, and clearly, principals do not make the effort to use it.

I simply do not accept the commonsense wisdom from the likes of Gillard and Pyne that school principals are all-knowing and GOOD, and classroom teachers just need to be offered a carrot to do the job they are paid to do.

All managers are constrained in how they employ and sack staff. No doubt there are variations from workplace to workplace.

Remedial professional support- I have a chum who works in 'education'. When a school has failed, and the principal and staff have stopped denying they are not the least bit useful to anyone anymore, then he comes in and takes them through their problems, providing training to them, examining their classroom pedagogy, their school 'vibe' and every thing that prevents them from doing what they get paid to do....continued/2

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That is 'remedial' support.

It has been my experience in Qld that PD is barely a budget item in schools, and much that is offered is pretty crap too. It costs over $300 a day to replace a teacher, plus the course and other costs. The same people seem to get the OK to go, and there is no real expectation that PD is part of the job. I have distilled that from my own experience, and those of teachers I know well.

I would not expect 'disciplinary action' to be step 1 in managing staff.

I'll give a close example.

My son has a shocking Maths B teacher. She favours girls, and resents boys. This is a long standing view of many students over the many years my children have been there, and all three have had her, and the other Maths B teachers too.

Her classes frequently fail exams. She teaches weeks behind the others so her students are not prepared for the exams. She is rude, and quite racist at times. She has been there for many years.

The HOD knows all this, and makes excuses, even to students. The other maths teachers 'sort out' her failures.

Now, should she be 'disciplined', or helped? I favour the latter first, and then if that fails the former naturally comes up next.

But the sad fact is that she is not, and never has been, 'managed' by the HOD, by the deputy, by the boss, nor by her colleagues via any collegiate process.

This person is probably the sort your friend speaks of, and I suggest that there is a primary responsibility for our principal to manage the teacher in question, the HOD, and the other maths teachers.

These sort of actions, however difficult, must be taken, but clearly are not, at our school, or thousands of others across the nation.

Wow. That's a truly amazing example, The Blue Cross.

>>Her classes frequently fail exams. She teaches weeks behind the others so her students are not prepared for the exams. She is rude, and quite racist at times. She has been there for many years.<<

Quite extreme, I would have thought. But you are wrong about this:

>>This person is probably the sort your friend speaks of...<<

Not at all. She has high standards herself, and expects her staff to meet those standards. It would appear that she is in fact quite fortunate, in that the peccadillos of her staff are mild in comparison to your example. In which context, I can understand your view that...

>>I would not expect 'disciplinary action' to be step 1 in managing staff.<<

Her idea of "disciplinary action" is to take the person aside as soon as possible after the event comes to her attention, and address it simply and informally, as any normal business manager would.

"Listen, I've heard that x happened this afternoon, which concerns me. Would you like to tell how it came about?"

The fact that she is effectively discouraged from even the simplest of daily management techniques, for fear of being hauled in front of mind-numbing and interminable "hearings", is appalling.

Shadow Minister,

Can you refer me to these Australian studies please?

The union-negotiated agreement allows schools to appoint their own staff. Victorian principals determine which positions they want filled. Jobs are advertised on line, and anyone, whether already employed by the education department or not, can apply. The selection panel will devise a short list of suitable candidates, interview them and recommend an appointment. It may make no appointment at all if it so decides. Technically the panel is making a recommendation to the principal, but the principal will almost always accept the recommendation of the panel that has conducted the process. So, principals can freely advertise and teachers can freely apply.

The pay rates are based on experience and position. Thus, there are 11 levels in the teacher category. Progress form one level to the next is based on an annual review. I don’t see any need for this. In fact, I think it is rubbish and the system was actually more efficient when progress was automatic. But the fact remains that pay is based on performance. Further, to get into the leading teacher category and thus higher pay, teachers must apply in competition with other teachers for such positions.

Pericles, yes, the example sounds 'extreme' but there are many such people feather-bedded in Ed Qld.

Many are promoted well above their useful purpose, and then prevent any change below them.

One of our deputies is another such person. Recognised as being totally inept with people, even in the regional office, this person is still tolerated by the institution while being loathed by every parent and child that comes into contact with them.

Lest you think this is sour grapes from a disgruntled parent, all my children have survived their experiences, and the current one is getting top marks, but only because he and a small group of other students teach themselves, together and via various web based resources.

I have given up trying to get action either at the school or at the regional office, like all the other parents over the years, because they close ranks and deny everything, and parents end up sounding like 'troublemakers'.

I do not see that removing any potential for 'policing' will improve our schools, as Gillard is proposing.

But it is also not possible to sack every last public servant and start again.

It seems that, while all organisations can/do ossify, for some reason 'education' is a stand alone case of total incompetence, from top to bottom.

Some of that can possibly be because it is also an emotive political football, with ill-informed politicians, be they Gillard or Abbott, Garrett or Pyne, as the four now bleating about it, poking their noses into what should be a fairly simple system, with clear objectives.

The terminology your friend uses is certainly not 'discipline', and is entirely appropriate as described by you.

Try

http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/CA256D800027B102/Lookup/SchoolPerformanceinAustralia/$file/SHAREDFUTURE040826%20-%20school%20performance%20in%20australia%20FINAL.pdf

Without spending too much time on research, this shows that the outcomes for students standardised to SES shows improved outcomes from the independent schools over the entire range.

Whilst there are some caveats in this analysis, there are no instances where pupils of the same SES background performed worse.

As for the employment of teachers, in NSW I know of more than one case where highly qualified and experienced teachers in the independent sector apply for local public school positions, but need to start at the bottom grade again, where the principle would love to have them but can only chose from the tiny pool offered.