Loudmouth and Suzieonline You both seem to be speaking a lot of common sense.

The welfare of the kids has to come first and their health and education. The best way of achieving that is the question and we have to make the intervention work to that end. The past has not worked.

Frankly, it was a sad day for aboriginals when Mal Brough lost his seat as i think he was set on achieving a better outcome for the kids.

The reality is now he is gone and we still have to work for the kids future.

The current culture in remote communities has to change.

suzeonline, Loudmouth and co,
the wellbeing of the children should always be paramount but for decades the Fed and Territiory governments have not ensured their wellbeing. Fresh clean water, access to nutritious food and safe housing are basic human needs that have not been met my numerous govts and thier workers. The NT intervention has not delivered better nutrition as the latest report showed that there has been an increase in hospitalisations for malnutrition SINCE the start of the intervention.

Housing shortages will not be remedies while the govt housing services charge a per head rent. This means that if there are 2 adults living in a house the rent is lower than if there are 5 or 10. Indigenous housing does not seem to recieve the same level of tennancy rights as other rental properties. Toilets can be broken (particularly if there are 10 adults and 5 children living in a 3 bedroom house - remember the rent deal) and not repaired. Stoves, wiring, etc all left unrepaired in a way that would not be tolerated in mainstream society.

A few years back there was a review of the new houses built in remote Aboriginal communities and it was found that the norm was for southern/city contractors has plumbing going nowhere, electrical outlets attached to walls with no wiring attached at all. Toilets with no water inlet and no waste outlet connected.

I am tired of seeing the same old guff being trotted out when it comes to discussion on Indigenous issues - it is always blame the blackfella. Perhaps if the people who are so interested in the topic were to step away from their same old line they might be able to come up with constructive comments like Mog.

Welcome back, Aka !

Rent per head ? What, about $ 20 per head per week ? If it was up to me, I would increase the rent per head for each additional person, to discourage over-crowding, and - faint hope - to encourage people to look after the houses they already have.

So: $ 20 for one person, an extra $ 30 for another person, $ 40 for another person, $ 50 for the next person, and so on.

Pretty clearly, Aka, a flat rent would hardly discourage over-crowding, will it ?

As for repairs, do the renters pay for them ? Or is it all free ?

You know, it's strange: traditional life, out in the bush, living under the stars, is supposed to be superior to western life (ptuh ! ptuh !). Yet people, including the lovely Aka, demand a western style of life. Fair enough, as long as it comes with a western style of responsibilities.

As well, Indigenous people own their land. It is privately-owned land. Public housing authorities build homes on it, and Aka, you demand that they keep doing so. Fair enough, as long as people understand the enormous cost of building in remote areas, in very small-scale groupings of houses, providing standard infrastructure, maintenance, etc., at great distances.

Yes, builders who do not do a proper job should be charged and jailed, shot if that is allowed, but people surely have to understand that houses don't come cheaply: no matter where they are built, on whose land, or whatever, they cost a hell of a lot: in cities, people spend all their working lives paying the things off.

People in remote communities have to understand that nobody 'out there' gets houses free, or cars free, and most people have to actually work for a living, not sit around and call themselves 'liaison' or 'engagement' or 'community development' officers. They actually work from minute to minute, hour to hour, day by day, with some psychotic alpha-boss breathing down their necks.

[TBC]

Gee, where do you get the figure of $20 per person per week Loudmouth?

That is certainly not the rate being charged to anyone I know of. Although I did hear of one tin shed in the NT, with a dirt floor housing something like 10-18 adults where each was charged at $25 per person per week. They did not have a functioning toilet - and I believe that some of the residents had built the shed themselves on Aboriginal land. The state agency charging rent was making a very tidy profit and without having to invest in further buildings or maintainence.

As for any tennant, the landlord is responisble for repairs. That is if the plumbing is broken etc the landlord pays or does repairs. In public housing supplied to non-Indigenous people in Qld, that is mainstream, every few years the houses get a refurbishment. This does not happen for Indigenous Australians.

I think it is timely to remind you that you know nothing about my lifestyle but I will tell you that I do not live in an urban area and my husband and I own our very humble dwelling and the freehold land it is situated on.

Loudmouth people in remote communities do know that "nobody 'out there' gets houses free, or cars free, and most people have to actually work for a living". Believe me they know that they have to pay through the nose for the most basic of goods. If you are as well versed in Indigenous issues as you claim you would know that it is a complete myth about getting cars for nothing. As for working, you would also be aware of the ripoff working conditions imposed on CDEP workers.

Some constructive ideas would be more productive.

I totally agree with Aka, you have to be versed in Indigenous issues to have a clear understanding of what you are talking about.

Aboriginal people living in remote and isolated communities do it hard. The cost of living in these communities are more expensive than regional/urban communities, 1. they have to pay freight costs, on top of GST and of course there is no competition from other retailers to drive costs down.

Now, in regards to trade people, lets be honest trades people charge a fortune and they don't always do a great job, some people in the field have been known to cut corners to save costs and this doesn't always work out cost effective in the long run, because the corners they cut will need attention later on.

As for child abuse in Aboriginal communities, let's not racialize child abuse, it happens in every community, that's the sad reality. But in remote and isolated communities; where are the police and services? These communities don't have police and like any community without police, sex offenders run riot, you only have to look at any community or country with nil, little or corrupt policing.

Human rights should be a basic right, my community should look like your community, it should have a swimming pool, police, health services, schools, TAFE, library, recreational area, roads, transport, hospital, etc. Go out into these communities and see if they look like your community.

I just don't understand people who think they have a clear concept and understanding of Human Rights, but, if Aboriginal people ask for basic human rights they automatically believe they are asking for "too much", "special treatment" or for more than any other Australian citizen and therefore place a huge burden on "taxpayers". Geez, I thought that was what my taxes were for, providing a decent standard of living for all Australians.

PS: The NT Intervention has done nothing for the safety and protection of children and can someone honestly please tell me how quaratining Centrelink payments stops child abuse?

Hi Quayle,

You're right that "you have to be versed in Indigenous issues to have a clear understanding of what you are talking about." I look forward to the time when your contributions are based on that premise.

Much of what you assert is sort of half-right: yes, people, women and kids, are doing it very tough in remote communities, in spite of the range of financial compensation for remoteness, relaxed Centrelink conditions and reliance decade after decade on CDEP, and the flow of royalties.

Yes, food costs are high. But many communities have running water, which suggests that, with care and the right equipment, they could be running their own vegetable gardens, chook yards and orchards, like the missionaries used to do. In fact, some remote communities have so much water that one major problem is being cut off by flood-waters for much of the year. Some communities could, in fact, produce the vegetables, eggs and fruit for neighbouring communities with little water. When you hear about communities starting up simple, basic vegetable gardens, let me know :)

Re your serve against trades-people: welcome to the world, Quayle. Isn't it strange, though, that every year, seventy thousand Indigenous people are enrolled in TAFE courses of various sorts and value, and that around a quarter of all Indigenous adults in the NT are enrolled every year in TAFE courses ? Over a ten-year period, that should mean that every single Indigenous adult in the NT is qualified in some field or other. So I'm confident that in every remote community, there are ample numbers of tradespeople of every sort to carry out all the repairs ever needed. Problem solved.

[TBC]