The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Our universities - something wicked their way comes > Comments

Our universities - something wicked their way comes : Comments

By Malcolm King, published 26/11/2010

An ebb in foreign student numbers may mean that Australian students have to pay-up to study.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. All
vanna,
Sadly that is the way universities operate now. Most of my undergrad lectures had 200-300 students. If I were a lecturer I would be glad only 50% of them directly contacted me for career advice. Universities have career counsellors and career centres that should have staff that are ready to deal with most basic enquiries. I remember someone in high school, I think it was the principal, say that it doesn't matter too much what you study but that you learn how to learn.

The article you shared did mention that students at American universities have greater interaction with their teaching staff, something I can subjectively corroborate from Americans that I know. Americans also pay through the nose for a university education, so all things are relative, I guess.

As for primary and secondary schools, as far as I know all schools have P&C meetings. The teachers are there and some parents are present but usually not many members of the general community make it to the meetings.

Also, regarding the importing of technology, software, textbooks etc...it would be great if we get Dell, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, Oxford Uni Press, Harper Collins, Prentice Hall etc to make their goods in Australia, but I don't think it can be done so easily. There is a very good chance that Australians have been involved in the developing, editing, marketing and publishing of the software and textbooks that are used in our unis. The publishing rights and printing may be done overseas but Australian minds have probably been involved, just as have minds from many other countries.

And the bit about ethics and character...well, learning is a two-way process. I would dare say that most tyrants don't really bother to learn those traits. Humans are human after all.

Finally, I have to disagree with your view on research at our universities, have a look at the Spring 2010 newsletter from the Australian Research Council: http://www.arc.gov.au/general/discovery_newsletter.htm
It's not an exhaustive list of all the research that happens in our unis, but it gives a snapshot.

http://currentglobalperceptions.blogspot.com/
Posted by jorge, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:01:38 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jorge,
"46.7 per cent [of university students] never raised for discussion ideas from class and 32.2 per cent did not raise their results with lecturers or tutors"

Basically, about 1/3 to 1/2 of students rarely spoke to their lecturers about anything.

Australian universities are not only the MCdonalds of universities, they have also become dinosaurs of the past.

They must believe that lecturers are a central depository of knowledge who then regurgitate their knowledge to an audience of students in a lecture hall.

But in reality, anyone can get much more knowledge from the internet then they can get from a lecturer.

A lecturer now has to be much more than a regurgitator, they have to be a mentor as well and actually talk to the students, however irksome that might be to a university academic.

The education system in Australia would have to be the least innovative and most backward system that I know of.

It has spent decades ripping off the public, and offering back the most minimal diet. It has consistently followed the laziest approach, which is to grab money from the taxpayer and then spend the lot on imports.

The end result is a mediocre, totally non-innovative and parasitic system that feeds of the taxpayer.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 4:54:27 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
vanna,
I would look at it another way. Why are the students not talking with their lecturers? During lectures only so much time can be devoted to Q&A, I remember some of my computer-savvy lecturers had online forums etc. and the onus was on the student to check it and ask questions. Granted this wasn't every lecturer, but let's not paint all lecturers with the same brush.

In your standard class not everyone speaks up or asks questions. It's just how we function in a group. Someone in a class waits for someone else to ask a question and hopes that it answers their own question.

True, the internet has a lot of information. But there are things that are better (not exclusively, but better) learned in an educational institution. Personally I would find it pretty difficult to learn a foreign language through the internet (yes, I've tried); science pracs are expensive (not to mention dangerous) to do at home as is rehearsing for a music ensemble performance or group drama production. Also, I wouldn't think very highly of a lawyer, doctor or dentist who didn't spend time on campus and presentations in a variety of fields are better done with a group of peers who can challenge your ideas and pose questions.

As for lecturers being mentors: in undergrad courses it would be difficult to mentor 200-300 students for 5 or so months before they move on to the next unit and a different lecturer. During some of my undergrad time we even had 4+ lecturers for the one class, so I cannot see how it would be practical. For postgrad I can see the benefit to having a mentor, but then no-one is perfect. Most companies have managers that are responsible for 10 (or so) people and I would think they find the job of mentoring quite difficult.

Could you elaborate as to how you came about your view that our universities are mediocre and parasitic? Just looking at ARC-funded research: http://www.arc.gov.au/general/arc_publications.htm (2009: http://www.arc.gov.au/pdf/pub_supported_research.pdf & 2000: http://www.arc.gov.au/pdf/00_03.pdf) not a glowing report card, but it's not so bad.

http://currentglobalperceptions.blogspot.com/
Posted by jorge, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 6:55:08 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jorge,
It costs about $15,000 to educate a student in primary school and secondary school.

Now the question is, why does it cost more to educate a university student, when the student:teacher ratio is about 20:1 in primary school and high school, but about 100:1 in a university.

As well, many students (up to 50%) don't seem to even speak with the lecturer (so they don't take up the lecturer's time), and an increasaing number of students hardly set foot on the campus.

As well, nearly everything in an Australian university is now imported and stock standard (or McDonalds education) so there are no development costs.

I would think money going to the universities is being bleed off somewhere.

As for research, wander through a shoping center or hardware store and try and find something made in Australia.

After 100 years of research in Australian universities, the universities themselves import just about everything.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 8:47:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sorry, it costs about $15,000 per year to educate each student in a primary school and high school.

At least part of this is supplied by the taxpayer (or academic's normally refer to this as government spending, as if the government makes the money).
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 8:52:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*As for research, wander through a shoping center or hardware store and try and find something made in Australia*

Vanna, you do go on and on about this. I have yet to figure out,
why you have a bee in your bonnet. You have yet to tell us.

So lets look at the reality. Most money spent by universities
is spent on wages and salaries, all spent to pay Australians.

The house you live in, nearly all Australian building materials.
The car you drive, your choice, Holden or Falcon.
The food you eat. You can live off Australian food and never starve.
The whitegoods in your house. Washing machine, stove, dishwasher,
all made locally if you choose.
You can wear Australian clothes if you wish, as long as you
pay the price. Plenty are made here, they just arn't at a discount
at Target.
Would you like a new kitchen or some new furniture? It is all made
here, if you pay the price. Your choice.

You gan even get drunk on Australian wine, to drown your sorrows,
or since of lat use Australian olive oil on your salads.

So its a furphy that everything is made overseas. Today you have
a choice, like never before. Consumers are king, how fortunate they
are to have that choice.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 1 December 2010 9:18:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. Page 4
  6. 5
  7. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy