*Gee really, so where's the action on climate change? which isn't exactly a recent phenomenon. And what about the GFC for a crisis event?*

Squeers, I seem to recall that even you once commented on the
incredible ability of capitalism to adapt and change itself. So
true. The reasons are clear. Nobody is offering anything better.

So what about the GFC? We adapted, we changed, we move on.

So what about climate change? As we speak it is venture capital,
plowing billions into funding the most creative minds, to find
solutions to the energy story. Govt commitees are not going to do
it for us.

I think this is all about perceptions. You regard yourself as a cow,
under our system. That IMHO is just your personal situation, certainly
not mine or many others whom I know. For some reason, every time
I think about your situation and what you have written, Goldman's
"Emotional Intelligence' comes to mind. You sound like somebody who
has spent their life, following their feelings, as he so clearly
describes. Fair enough, but don't blame the rest of us, or the
system, for your personal situation.

If/when the oil runs out or becomes scarce, capitalism is the only
system which allows human innovation to thrive, to find solutions.

It will adapt, so will we, for the most permanent thing in life is
change.

Ludwig:
<Capitalism WILL change its nature to conform to a steady state economy, sooner or later. That is guaranteed!>

Yea right, you'll pardon me if I don't take that to the bank. Is that what's happening in China, India et al? Hmm, and I wonder who buys all their cheap goods??
<Within a steady state economy, capitalism will be alive and well…. with the profit motive intact but without the continuous expansion in markets or the production of goods>
Gawd! Read some political economy. Your scenario and capitalism are antithetical!

Yabby,
I have a large house with five bedrooms and three bathrooms and am as comfortable as I could wish, all paid for by mine and my wife's toil, with no handouts or lucrative accidents of birth. Yet I'm not so conceited as to think my material success comes down to mine or my country's merit. The Poms were just lucky to find the place "Terra nullius" and we are the inheritors of that blind luck, however much we pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves we deserve it.
My comment that you allude to was based on capitalism's ability to adapt to its own internal contradictions, aided in no small part by ideology, which after a generation or two becomes entrenched false consciousness. That's where you're at and on what my cattle analogy was based.

BTW, everything I've read on peak oil suggests the effects will be so abrupt and broadscale that there will be no time to adapt. In any case capitalism will be out of fuel! But you keep dreaming. The world needs more spoiled dreamers. Look at Dick Smith--a national icon!

You both just have this teeny parochial mindset and can't grasp larger contexts.

<< It's not going to be a long conversation, Ludwig. Unless you've got something sensible or plausible to say, I've got better things to do! >>

Hehehe! Well Squeers off you go then. Don’t let me stop you from getting to all those really important things that you keep putting off in order to respond to the likes of little ol Luddie!

I presume you’ll hang in there for a bit longer.

So let’s explore what we do agree on.

From your first post:

<< Peak oil is shaping up as far more devastating than climate change (though they're part and parcel) because the effects will be dramatic, multivalent and concerted >>

Agreed!

From your third post:

<< Capitalism is an entrenched world-system >>

Yep.

<< It is going to take something like a peak-oil catastrophy before any country even entertains the idea of moderation >>

Pretty much.

From your fourth post:

<< Even without peak oil or AGW the Australian lifestyle is unsustainable and unconscionable >>

Absabloodylootely!!

So what is it that we actually disagree on? Not much really.

We are both enormously frustrated and angry with the way things are proceeding towards disaster by all accounts.

I’m no great supporter of capitalism. I agree that it has GOT to change, big time, if we are going to stave off a devastating social and economic crash, and that the likelihood of that change seems very low at the moment despite all the warning signs.

You and I and Yabby and others should be able to have a very good discussion here without being insulting or tetchy with each other. If insults have to be delivered on this forum, let’s save them for those who are shoving continuous growth down our throats and telling us that AGW and peak oil are nothing to worry about.

*The Poms were just lucky to find the place "Terra nullius" and we are the inheritors of that blind luck, however much we pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves we deserve it.*

Err so what? Nature never was fair and never will be. You could
have been born really ugly, deformed, or really handsome. None of
it fair. You could have been born in Australia or elsewhere, so
be it. Its about making the best of the hand that we are dealt.

Some Australians do work hard for what they have and can
pat themselves on the back, for they have made the best of their
situation, whatever it is. Others expect life on a plate, because
they are Australian.

I'm really not sure what your point is. I certainly don't see how
your Marxism would make Australia a better place then it is right
now.

If you are worried about peak oil, so buy yourself an electric car.
Nearly every manufacturer will have a model on the road by 2012.

I've been unable to post till now.
Apologies, Ludwig, for the tone; you're right, I get frustrated.

Yabby,
your post illustrates exactly the attitude that has to change. You say:
<Err so what [to Australia's good fortune]? Nature never was fair and never will be>
Humanity has indeed been in a passive, fatalistic, indeed evolutionary, position hitherto, but we now have the brainpower to take control of our destiny (evolution), which is why I slipped in the word "husbandry" above. We remain subject to nature, ultimately (as peak-oil and AGW indicate), but we can work within those constraints. Why do we relegate human destiny to the vicissitudes of vicious competition? Why do we allow our affairs to be dictated by a so-called free market, which is both loaded and indifferent to all appeals to humanity, sustainability or ethics? The human world should not be run according to the dictates of any "operating system", but be reproduced and improved according to the cloth. Our aim should be to be the best that we can be in an impossible situation (we should not underestimate our existential position). Is humanity no better than that for you, Yabby, a mob of vicious opportunists? The more ruthless, the more successful? I have higher hopes for humanity!

<If you are worried about peak oil, so buy yourself an electric car.
Nearly every manufacturer will have a model on the road by 2012>

If this is all humanity is good for--adapt exploitatively, indifferently to the new conditions, so that our short-term comfort (delusion anyway) is all that matters--then the sooner we're deleted from the face of the Earth, the better.

I'm wondering if there's ever been an example of a capitalist economy that hasn't been predicated on continuous growth. Are there any "steady state" capitalist systems in existence?