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The Forum > Article Comments > Honesty or denial?: Karl Bitar at the National Press Club > Comments

Honesty or denial?: Karl Bitar at the National Press Club : Comments

By Chris Lewis, published 12/11/2010

Labor all around Australia risks becoming a joke if it doesn't squarely face its problems.

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Chris Lewis,

I couldn't listen to Bitar for more than 5 minutes.

Agreed. I have been a Labor voter for more than 40 years and I've never seen a Labor Party so bankrupt of progressive ideas. Labor governments in the past have sometimes been politically inept (like the Rudd-Gillard administration) however,they at least tried to implement progressive policies. L.F. Crisp divided Australian political parties into 'Labor and anti-Labor' ie the Coalition's raison d'etre was to keep Labor from office and subsequently altering the social and political status quo. Labor now seems to have adopted the Coalition's political strategy--the result is a national policy grid-lock.

The final sentence puts the situation concisely.
Posted by mac, Friday, 12 November 2010 7:18:41 AM
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I am ganerally antipathetic to Labor, so my overall understanding is one of perceptions as opposed to facts. However, as perceptions are what generally guide the voter, perceptions regarding this government are very negative and becoming ever more so I judge, from things I hear on the street.

Chris Lewis writes

"While these are difficult economic times....the public does expect Labor to promote politices in line with its historical traditions. This is especially true when an increasing minority struggle with higher costs for housing, food and utilities."

Well, Labor have driven much of the increase cost of utilities and food with its push for an ETS which gave licence to parties all over to do whatever.For example, power plants not being maintained due to future uncertainty.

Consumers, in my years of being, have always born painful costs in almost everything when Labor is in government. It seems as if their assertion that they protect the 'little man' is, and always has been, a pathetic con.

As for Gillard being more intellectually able than Abbott - that flies in the face of all commonsense. Gillard is one of the least able leaders - let alone PM's- in my many years of watching and living under them.

Time for a change and sooner rather than later.
Posted by Ibbit, Friday, 12 November 2010 9:40:13 AM
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the problem is that there are no internal debates within the party so no contest of ideas, generally left of centre activists only associate with like minded people and therefore are not used to arguing or trying to convince people with a different mindset.
we become insular and cannot understand why our views are rejected by the community at large and generally resort to childish name calling
Posted by slasher, Friday, 12 November 2010 10:38:01 AM
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It's hard to disagree with this post, but the ALP faces other problems as well:

- a PM who seems to lack a narrative or vision, other than her tedious references to education (an area where her policies are completely unconvincing)

- the lack of politicians able to speak plainly and convincingly to the general public. Gillard and Wong remind me of computer generated voices: Gillard because every utterance seems to have been through three cycles of editing to avoid saying anything controversial, with the result that she seems to lack intelligence (which I must assume she doesn't); and Wong because her highly analytical monotone sounds like machine speak. In neither case are they able to engage people in the bigger picture of what they are about. (Bring back Tanner.)

The government does deserve some sympathy, in that the key issues at present are all very controversial (refugees, the Murray, private school funding, mining tax, ETS). On balance, I can't see any of these issues being good news stories for Labor, which is even more reason why some big picture narrative is important (and this won't be achieved by continuing vacuous references to what the 'Australian people' want).
Posted by Godo, Friday, 12 November 2010 1:24:52 PM
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In answer to Slasher. What a remarkably honest and perspicacious response to the above article.

You are right, people of like mind do congregate together, think alike, then scream at the rest of us, calling us racist or whatever insult might be the flavour of the day.

This is no way to bring people along. It causes resentment and antipathy and never wins debates. It may win an election, but soon people being to feel the pain of increasing costs and see the dishonesty in the policies - or lack of - put forward and it goes harder with those elected to power.

One other observation - the left of the spectrum are intellectually arrogant and people, by and large, detest being talked down to, treated as if they were morally inferior, dumber somehow. There are many in the community who have very high levels of education but who also have the saving grace of not feeling themselves better, or morally superior in any way to their fellow citizen.

The American grassroots organisation The Tea Party has a growing pesence in Australia, so I wonder how much longer it is before ordinary people begin to make their feelings known as are the farmers of the Murray Darling Basin.

Still, I admire your honesty. It is refreshing indeed and you are to be commended for it.
Posted by Ibbit, Friday, 12 November 2010 1:59:25 PM
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Were ALP Labor than I'd be a vehement supporter of Labor. However, in the years since Whitlam the ALP has done a 180〫move away from Labor & that is their gradual undoing. It is almost traditional that voters wait until a Labor Government has emptied the till & then a Coalition mob gets voted in again until the coffers are full again. The electorate is simply exploiting the economic loop holes. Mind you, those with a little more integrity are the ones missing out. Why do you think the Public Service is doing so well ? Because they don't have to go down with the Government that fails. They've got the best of both worlds at the expense of the working class.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 13 November 2010 10:20:48 AM
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oops! that's supposed to say 180 degrees. don't know how this typo occurred.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 13 November 2010 12:13:10 PM
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As a swinging voter, giving my vote to the ideas and not the personalities or parties, I voted for Kevin 07, but in the last election, so disillusioned was I, that I voted informal. Seeing the performance of the GALP (Green Australian Labor Party) now, and reviewing the performance of the former ALP, I fully understand my disillusionment.

GALP and ALP do not stand for the working people, they are Liberal pretending to be different. As Liberals, their performance is worse than Liberals who suffered for their complacency and stale ideals.

What a terrible thing it is that the working class must turn their back on public education because the real funding is to be found in private education. It plays havoc with the families budget as they search their finances to fund a private eduction.

What a terrible thing it is for the environmentally aware that they must endure this constant holding pattern as the GALP dump their ideological fuel before landing with taxes only... as if that is the solution.

I care about the environment. I care about the working class. I need for governments with vision and the courage to bring that vision to fruition. I need for real solutions to modern problems and not just more taxes that are spent on everything but the problem.

What political party is there now which can give this to me?
Posted by George Jetson, Saturday, 13 November 2010 5:08:01 PM
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George Jetson
You have expressed what I think a lot of ALP/Green supporters are feeling. The idea that climate change and energy issues can be addressed purely by economic triggers (trading, caps, taxes) is short sighted and throws environmental issues into the mire of the financial markets.

We need to do more on renewables and more on saving resources including not increasing populations to beyond what environments and finite resources can withstand. The GALP is doing some work on renewables but are still, like the Coalition, obsessed with energy sucking projects like desalination, with problems already experienced with the NSW plant being located too close to the sewage outlets and the risk of E.Coli contamination. It just gets worse and worse.

Gillard is still playing it 'safe' without any real vision about much of anything.

Increasing the cost of power only means people will pay more for power at the expense of something else even if there is some reduction in usage it won't be enough. Moving money around via an ETS is not addressing the problem. I wish the Greens would get on board with a bigger focus on direct environmental policies as well without a blind faith in an ETS to have any real effects of climate change. I can just imagine the shonk dealings that will come out of a cap and trade and the inflationary effect of bargaining/trading cap allowances (if my understanding is correct of how it all works).

Bitar and others have said there needs to be more internal debate, but how much will just be lip service and how much will be a frank discussion about what Labor really stands for.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 14 November 2010 9:56:04 AM
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I think you are whistleing into the wind wishing for any thing outstanding while there is a hung parl:
The least critisism will come by a status quoe:
50% are on the other side, so you can not win.
As long as both sides remain inseperable there will be no change.
Posted by 579, Sunday, 14 November 2010 12:02:19 PM
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george,

the problem with the left of centre alp/greens is we have no positive economic philosophy principles, we criticise market economics when it is preached as the guiding force in labor markets, we decry the myth of the invisible hand in respect of welfare economics but to deliver environment reform we embrace the free market and expect the invisible hand to squeeze carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere
Posted by slasher, Sunday, 14 November 2010 10:48:17 PM
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Well I thought the Bitar whingeing was glorious, and a prime example of a brain dead political party.

Bitar even blamed Latham for the near loss.

Incredible!

Might as well blame Gillard for supporting Latham into the leadership when he challenged that massive windbag, Beazley.

Let's face it, the ALP is a dead parrot. It's lost any membership outside of trade union officials and ALP party machine men, and a few token women.

The Qld branch of the CWA has more members than the entire ALP, and probably including the Liberals too.

Let's hope the ALP keeps filling its leadership spots with people of Bitars brilliance, so we can watch them slip out of history along with the Democrats.

There are absolutely no reasons to vote for the ALP over the Coalition, other than to avoid equally terrible politicians.

They've lost me as a voter, at state and federal levels, and while people like Bitar, and Rudd and Gillard, continue to be feted by their mates, I'll not be bothering to reconsider.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 7:42:18 AM
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I am interested in what people think is the best answer to get major parties to wake up a bit.

Is it to go to minor parties and Greens? I would have thought this a good option as long as public debate is extensive.

To some degree, we are seeing some of these issues being addressed now.

While Gillard raves on about more of the same, independents and Greens are raising public concern about lack of disclosure about foreign ownership of land, danger of mining to agriculture and so on.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 8:00:14 AM
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Chris, the answer is 'yes', abandon all three of the dead parrots, and go for Green candidates, whoever they are, and however stupid they might sound.

Give the 'free market' supporters a taste of 'free market' voting effects.

But be careful of 'independents' who all too frequently are rightwing nutcases or xtian fruitcakes.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 8:05:18 AM
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the best answer to get major parties to wake up a bit.
Chris,
I'd say if we had religious education replaced by political education in schools then we'd be rid of the ALP in no time. As soon as young people could understand how it all works they'd see that ALP is an unworkable alternative & presto, the votes will go elsewhere.
You never know, this might make it possible for a Labor Party to emerge.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 2:57:38 PM
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Good idea, some edumacation would soon see the end of the National Party and the Liberals too, to say nothing of the xtian extremists in Fambly First, the DLP/NCC, and the Great Porn Researcher, Rev. Fred Nile.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 5:46:29 PM
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I think as long as debate is extensive and sophisticated, some party or MPs will emerge to fill the void and force necessary change, although good and strong political leadership is also crucial.

At least, I am very hopeful.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 16 November 2010 7:29:52 PM
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