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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia must line-up with the US rather than China > Comments

Australia must line-up with the US rather than China : Comments

By Walter Lohman, published 8/11/2010

China must learn to work with a status quo shaped by 60 years of US leadership.

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Rexw, I suppose that USA Empire probably is evil, just not as evil as any other empire before, or concurrent with it, & that includes the one that founded us. Some, perhaps most men, when backed by great power will indulge in a little evil. I do remember a few school teachers.

As I said, an army legal officer must have served in all types of theatres of war to have the necessary judgement to promote charges for events that happened in times of great personal danger. 25 years sitting in their butt in a nice safe office is the last experience to justify the position.

I would say that if the predictions of doom we are berated with come to pass, peak oil, global warming or food shortages would very rapidly find us a few enemies.

The fact that we have a great deal of energy in our coal, gas, & probably a great deal of oil under the barrier reef, will make us quite a target. At best for a “friend” who wants access to “share” this energy, cheaply, at worst, to someone who wants to take it.

Our subs are supposed to defend us from attack, but when it is unlikely more than one of them could sail at short notice, I do wonder at their value.

Our amphibious ships are supposed to move our heavy armament to where it’s needed, but they have trouble moving themselves.

We are supposed to have 2 new, much bigger amphibious ships, being fitted out in Oz right now. That does appear to be a bit delayed. I don’t suppose it matters that much, they will require more crew than the old ones, so like the subs, they will probably stay tied to a wharf once they do make it into service.

So mate, it doesn’t matter too much who wants our energy, even a few PNG tribesmen waving spears may just stretch our capacity, in a few more years.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 8 November 2010 7:38:57 PM
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Nearly all Western Govts are currently oligarchies ie large corporate enterprises control our Govts.

Follow this logic.Western Govts actively empowered China by relocating all their manufacturing there.The object was to destroy the middle class in the West to give them more power & control over us.They have given China all this power and now cry foul that China wants protect itself from the most powerful by far, military force on the planet.

The corporate neo-cons in Israel and USA are looking for excuses to invade Iran and pick a fight with China.They have been caught out red handed in the biggest false flag event of all time,ie 911.War will be their escape.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 8 November 2010 8:45:49 PM
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Hard to disagree with your comments on the inability of our country to schedule resources for the right priorities for our country's Defence.
They are all political decisions.
I could draw your attention to the feckless nature of our current bevy of 'leaders' such as Gillard and Abbott, misfits and out of their depth and when it comes to experience and judgement, not one has worn a uniform or fired a shot at anything but a rabbit or two. Yet we allow them to make decisions on Defence, Australia's future, your future too, as well as mine.

But I really should ask you if any Judge in the Supreme Court or lower court for that matter has been to gaol, committed a murder or robbed a bank and yet we willingly accept their jurisdiction over such matters, understanding clearly their knowledge of the law, their knowledge of justice. That is what it is all about, surely.

I do respect the ability of our senior ranks to know what they are doing.

One should not confuse the military with the political climate. Can you imagine Gillard making a decision on something as contentious as this, leaning left one day and right the next, being aware of how she appears in the media, conscious of external controlling influences like the Melbourne Zionists or the party factions of Arbib and Shorten. With the military you have people who have earned their positions in the main by experience and skill and are seldom influenced by matters that are not of a military nature. Let us keep it that way, please. The jaundiced mouthpieces like Jones are all very well influencing the thoughts of the non-thinkers but trial by media is an anathema to most Australians.

The lack of confidence you display is unfortunate but I am confident that your concerns will be answered fully, in open court as it should be.

By the way I am not a lawyer and my military experiences were a long time ago, pleasantly remembered as a major contributor to my growth as a person, or so I believe.
Posted by rexw, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 8:42:28 AM
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Hasbeen wrote 8 November 2010 4:20:33 PM:

>Tomw ... our pilots flying around in B grade aircraft ...

The F/A-18F Super Hornets purchased to replace the F111s are capable aircraft to a proven design.

In 2008 I suggested also a dozen EA-18G Growler, electronic warfare variants: http://blog.tomw.net.au/2008/09/what-australia-buy-for-defence.html

The government is having 12 F/A-18Fs fitted with extra wiring for Growlers. I suggested Australia can add the electronics: http://blog.tomw.net.au/2010/01/electronic-warfare-and-radar-imaging.html

>Then, just like that fool Rudd, you want more subs. ...

No. Defence proposed 12 large, long range bespoke submarines. I suggested six smaller submarines to a proven design and six supply ships would be cheaper and more effective.

>... we can only man one & a half of the six we have. ...

New subs of proven design will require fewer crew.

>... Frigates sitting idly along side ...

The new Spanish designed Hobart class Australian Air Warfare Destroyers should be an improvement. These are smaller and take fewer resources than the US equivalent. But they still have the US AEGIS missile system, for air defence (and can be upgraded for ballistic missile defence): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_class_destroyer

When combined with two Canberra class "Landing Helicopter Dock" (LHD) ships being constructed in Spain, Australia will have an effective naval force with few equals in the region: http://www.tomw.net.au/technology/transport/amphibious.shtml

The LHDs can carry 1,000 troops, plus helicopters and landing craft to get them ashore. The LHDs are equipped with a ski-jump for VSTOL aircraft and are really aircraft carriers, although Australian has not yet ordered any F-35Bs for them: http://www.tomw.net.au/technology/it/jsf/index.shtml

There are no nations comparably equipped in the region. India has aircraft carriers and Harrier VSTOL aircraft, but of questionable serviceability. China and India are working on carriers with Russian technology, but Russia itself was never very keen on using this technology itself.

>We need a crash course in Canberra & Duntroon ...

ADFA's courses and those at the Australian Command and Staff College are very advanced (in the past I have taken part in them): http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/centres/acsc/acsc.html
Posted by tomw, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 12:35:30 PM
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Tomw, you didn’t have to tell me you had been to Staff College, your post told me. It also told me of your brain washing at said course.

You either missed everything I said, or chose to ignore it anyway.

The navy has done a reasonable job of catching up with the real world, since the days of press gangs, but I’m afraid it is dragging the chain again. Perhaps you have not noticed that these things called ships get more technical every year, & it is not just electronic warfare that requires people with more than a little savvy, if they are to go when required.

When the mines are crying out for men with skill & savvy, & offering $140,000 a year to attract them, the navy has a problem. If you want to get away with paying them $70,000 & still keep some of them, you have to start treating them as highly valued members of the crew.

Since the bit of hanky panky, with a few boys & girls on Supply, our brilliant man managers in our navy decided to shove the crews around, all over the place. This has made quite a few senior sailers very unhappy, & lead to even more resignations than before.

You can’t run ships with POs trained on steam, & bright eyed recruits, just out of school, it just doesn’t work. Ships must have people who understand them. You can’t charge into battle, all guns blazing, if the engines won’t go, nor it would appear, can you sail out of Sydney.

Kinimbla did not suffer an engine room fire, & almost drift into Sydney Heads because of lack of seamanship of its officers, it did so because of lack of man management & training of its engineering crew, & the whole engineering section of our navy.

They do not have enough experienced people now to do the job, & it’s the experienced ones now deserting a badly managed navy.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 2:46:39 PM
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Tomw and Hasbeen,

Obviously both well informed and experienced. I have found your comments to be interesting with possibly both of you being correct in most comments.

May I go where a non-military angel may fear to tread. There have been major errors. Yes, the submarines are not adequately crewed or trained which means they have no back up crews either. Some designs have been faulty, many others delayed. And yes, big money for miners must be a temptation for a healthy sailor.

But everything we have done here to generate some local industry has been a learning curve, our dismal industrial capability would have been negligible without such activities. But look at us now. We build things.

The general opinion is that we do have serious problems in the management of large scale projects which, when based on the US Strike Fighter, must be standard practice for defence industries, everywhere. But nothing we have experienced, of our own making, equals the timid resolve from our political 'masters' reflected in their lack of understanding of the need for the skills required in 2010 based on the technology we now use and depend on every day. Nor do their political skills stretch as far as knowing how long it takes to train such people nor the real value in money terms that they represent as skilled service men and women. As well, we seem to turn our back on the welfare of our fighting forces, challenge them as an adversary in the courts over things like Agent Orange after-effects and Gulf War syndrome disease, rather than supporting them in every way possible.

We all know that it is not the military doing these things but budget-based directions and constraints from government. The quality of our politicians is bordering on frightening.

There's your problem, ongoing in this country, making us such an easy mark for the devious manipulations of the Clintons and Gates' of this world which, when coupled to the sycophantic predisposition of Gillard, Rudd and Smith, make Australia a pushover in every way possible, as time will show.
Posted by rexw, Tuesday, 9 November 2010 5:30:06 PM
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