Hi Yabby, the Madoff scandal wasn't part of the GFC - it was a ponzi scheme. The major difference is that he has been jailed for his crimes. The CEOs of these fraudulent investment banks haven't.

If the wealthy happen to fall on hard times, they have access to social networks eg old school tie network to help them find new emploment. This is a great buffer against hardship.

The financial and motor industries were two industries that fought against government regulation in the US. If the US banking industry was more like ours we wouldn't be in this mess. If Ford and GM were more like Honda or Kia- they wouldn't have got into trouble.

Yes, poor people can be greedy too. There are people who can't afford food etc because they are convinced they need to pay for investment properties. I think they are crazy, but their friends/the media/financial/real estate experts all tell them that's their best way to accumulate wealth. There are heaps of trusted "experts" acting as boosters for the economy.

There are rogue traders etc out there too. But surely the system itself was set up in a moral vacuum. Lots of people, including CEOs knew that derivatives etc were a scam. But as long as everyone was getting rich out of it, it was business as usual.

Regarding the US elections - people can only make decisions with the information given to them. Fox News is incredibly powerful, as is the Tea Party. Like Palin they have a folksy appeal, but all of them have one thing in common - they are all backed by wealthy elites who want hollow government.

Individuals are to blame for the mess we are in. But those who wrote the rules at (or tore up the rule book), have a greater responsibility for this mess, if there is any justice, they should share the pain. The elites who wrote the rules aren't being asked to pay more taxes, but the poor and middle classes are being told to expect mass sackings and cuts to vital services. It's obscene!

*the Madoff scandal wasn't part of the GFC*

Bjelly, in fact it was, as the disease was the same. The SEC had
been told many times that Madoff was a fraud, they refused to act.
This was essentially the problem. Bush/Cheney did not believe that
the industry needed regulation, the SEC became a toothless tiger.
Their head of enforcement, was a little old lady who looked more
like a librarian with a bun in her hair. She soon resigned,but it
was all over by then.

In Australia we were fortunate. We'd been shaken up by the HIH
scandal, Costello reacted by appointing a very tough banking
regulator. That paid off for this country.

* Lots of people, including CEOs knew that derivatives etc were a scam*

It ain't that simple. Derivatives are an important part of
finance and trade, used every day by countless industries to hedge
commodities, currencies etc. It was particular derivatives, hedged
through the IAAG office in London by the way, that were the real
problem.

The real problem now is to show where who broke the law. The
lawyers will be cleaning up for years!

Meantime people like Dick Fuld are seemingly more worried about
being shot, then anything else, so I don't think he is sleeping
so well.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/24/news/companies/dick_fuld_exile.fortune/index.htm

Dear Bjelly,
you're wasting your time arguing with Yabby, he's the free-market Pangloss of OLO. And Palin looks like getting up in the US because Obama imposed limited health-care on the masses and failed to bail out the sinking ship Bush staved in..
It's a funny old world!

*Regarding the US elections - people can only make decisions with the information given to them. Fox News is incredibly powerful, as is the Tea Party. Like Palin they have a folksy appeal*

Bjelly, I think that is a bit of a lame excuse for the US situation.

Fact is, Obama is being treated as a scapegoat. Its a human foible
to blame everyone but ourselves, when things go wrong.

Something like 20% of the population still think that he is a
muslim.

Much as I dislike Fox news, the source of news today is immense,
especially with the internet available to justabout everyone.

News Ltd have long learned, that its highly profitable to preach
to the converted. From religious programmes to the page 3 girls
in some of their papers, if it attracts viewers or readers,
News will push those emotional buttons to make a quid.

So I blame people themselves for being far too gullible. They
say that people get the politicians they deserve. If they
now rush to somebody like Palin, well clearly they haven't had
enough pain from 8 years of George and Dick. They will learn the
hard way.

Squeers, unlike yourself, whom I classify as a dreamer :) I am
a realist who takes the trouble to inform himself about topics
of interest, I don't just read the headline news.

Global finance and economics is one of those interests.

If our Govt pulled the police off the roads, would you blame it
all on the criminals, or would that Govt carry part of the
responsibility for what followed?

If I had elected that Govt, clearly I would carry a share of the
blame as well.

Dear Yabby,
I might be a dreamer, but I'm having a nightmare.

I hope you had a listen to Joe Bageant on Big Ideas:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigideas/

Marx never gets a mention (not on his website either), but everything this self-professed redneck says is from Marx.

I gather you're a country bloke too so would like to get your response to Bageant if you have the time...