For what it costs to keep the Nato coalition in Afghanistan perhaps a solution would be to spend that amount on providing a system for allowing the people who want to opt out of the Afghan conflagration to other countries. Any one who did not want to leave would be left in Afghanistan to tough it out with whoever is left to run it, after the inevitable civil war.
I am sure that if the amount of population that wanted to leave could be absorbed into all of the countries worldwid

We stay till the job is done, plain and simple - you don't walk away from your responsibilities. If we are part of a world society that is against terrorism and is there to help primitive cultures escape tyranny and not be run down by religious nutters, then we have to do our bit.

If it takes 100 years, so what? This is a long haul cultural as well as regional war.

I'm fascinated by the same people who say we should not do our bit in places like Afghanistan, but they want us to contribute our meager amount to reducing CO2 in the atmosphere. We should be world leaders in reducing carbon pollution, but not reducing world terrorism, what?

We have to take a stand somewhere, it might as well be there and at least it isn't next door to us.

Why do people think we can pick and choose our wars, or our place in the world - lots of people are going to be against us regardless because we are a modern western society.

We have partnerships and obligations to other first world countries, like the USA, so be it.

Clearly the UN is useless in this world, except for criticizing first world countries.

We're too small to exist for long on our own and our relationship with the US is good top cover for us, no one will mess with us, because we are a senior US ally. If you don't like that, then get ready to spend a hell of a lot more on our defence forces, we'll need them.

Most Australian recognise that, and like it that way.

When the government addresses and fixes this problem then they may have some moral basis on which to wage war in a remote country to uphold democracy and justice.

Asked what the federal government planned to do on the issue of clerical child abuse, Mr Rudd said it was important to acknowledge the pain of victims but “the church over some time now has established its own process within Australia for dealing with this”.

“And the church in doing so has dealt with many cases from the past, and where there have been imperfections in the process they have also sought to improve those processes.”

No Bruce.. our troops are hostage to the reality of NUCLEAR WEAPONS in Pakistan which the Talibs want desperately to get their hands on.

You seem to live in some world where such realities are non existent.

Or if you do have concerns.. you don't speak about them.

You say:

"If Australia was serious about reducing the threat of terrorism it would withdraw."

Holy moley... if ever there was an overworked and undertrue cliche..that is it.

wellll..of course Neville... and the assurance of Hitler 'not to invade' was absolutely set in stone.

Sorry old son...you simply don't understand either the tribal or Islamic mind. When u've done some serious homework on those things.. you might like to try again.

//US policy in Afghanistan is checkmated.//
Yep..just like it was at Pearl Habour, Saipan, Guadalcanal and many other places....... not.

BRUCE'S PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST AGENDA is clearly seen in his 'real' motive for this piece.

//For instance no checks have been applied on Israel sufficient to stop policies of genocide toward the Palestinians and to prevent West Bank settlements.//

Woops? I thought it was all about Afghanistan...silly me.

It grieves me, that the author of this scatological emesis can claim any credence with his latest essay. The Gillard Government debate in the House, made it quite plain ( in no uncertain terms ) we are committed to Aust Foreign Policy, US Alliance, UN Security Council Resolutions etc and will stay the course, at least for another decade. No matter what the Green's, Andrew Wilke, and dysfunctional amigo Independents may surreptitiously think.

The armchair brigade, can holler from the tree tops of Mt Kosciusko till they are hoarse and blue-in-the-face, it would count for peanuts. As they say in the Scriptures, the mission is clear. The inscriptions are etched in stone. A Pyrrhic victory for common sense, indeed !

There has been an uncommon amount of criticism over the Afghanistan / Iraq conflagration, both on the ABC, Unleashed,olo etc significantly, because three Servicemen have been charged with manslaughter following allegations of a botched rendezvous by SAS Forces in Uruzgan Province. For the most part, many are incensed the ADF should be trailing their own, under the fog of War. Undoubtedly, there will be sever ructions and ramifications. But, that's another story.

Even though Oz ear-marks 1.8 % of GDP on Defence, it dwarfs the UK, France, Germany etc which as the result of GFC, are paring down the size of Military expenditures, and putting their Defence Chiefs at loggerheads with the bean counters. Many threaten to resign their commissions in protest.

In times of Peace, it behooves the Military to do the Maths, to convince impoverished Govts, that aircraft Carriers, squadrons of jump-jets, and Trident submarines etc outweigh infrastructure, Health, Education, Climate change, welfare, ad finitio. Either case, budgetary constraints and the waste of taxpayers dollars inculcates enormous derision, from many unlikely sources. This debate has been thrashed in the Lowry Institute of International Affairs, many times over !

Before the critics get on their high horses, they should read " Aust Defence White Paper. 2009 ". The Community at large was consulted; 35 Public hearings; 450 written submissions. Defence & National Security Strategies, makes compelling..

cont..

compelling " raison d'etre " for such a detailed study." Hedging development against future risks " - a must read.

Although, it is abundantly clear, we must retain the ability to conduct Independent Military Operations in controlling Air and Sea approaches, denying an adversary the ability to undermine our course of actions. Even though the US will remain the most powerful and influential strategic player in the region, extending well over the period 2030 - we are unashamedly beholden Politically, Economically and Militarily !

It is a point of fact, all our Defence requirements are intrinsically dependent on US Manufacture and supply. As our Fleet of capital equipment age and deteriorate, the need becomes more apparent, and all three services have compiled a " wish list ", that encompasses tens of billions of dollars, and will exacerbate tenfold - into the nest generation, and beyond !

The David Mortimer Review on Procurement, Sustainability and Industrial Support, gives a clearer indication, we need urgent replacements for a multitude of hardware, software and any thing in between. Our in-house Industries, for want of trying are totally inept, out-of-depth, and spend zilch on Research and Development, unless it was fully funded by the Commonwealth. The submarine Corporation in SA,is not geared up to build Subs, which require Aegis Electronic software, only available in the US, under license. Besides, it took six years from keel to commissioning, and a further year and a half of sea trials to bring the six Collins Class subs to sea worthy standards.All were sent to Seattle, San Diego, and Washington shipyards for Aegis updates.

The HMAS Kinimbla / Manoora, and all the Sea King choppers, are destined for scrap-metal yards.

On the balance of probabilities, it is unlikely, at least in the foreseeable future 2030, we will see any change of attitudes, viz military procurement policies. As it is, US Congress is reluctant to share America's High Tech Resources with it's closest ally, Israel.

Their priorities are more immediate than ours. They can be targeted at will, and are within range of IBM's. Lucky for them, they have a thriving Defence Industry, which manufactures Fighter a/c, Tanks, ships, electronic gun sights, cyber warfare surveillance, satellite navigation etc.
Ultimately, their survival depends on their ingenuity, know-how, and home grown resources.

Bully for them !

Some independent moron wants Australia to pull out of Afghanistan before quote; more australian soldiers lose their lives. He even managed a quiver in his voice & sound close to tears. he was quite good actually, didn't overdo it. Now, why doesn't he want to pull all idiot drivers off the roads & because they too kill many good australians. He'd obviously be quite happy for other nations to take the risk & effort to live in reasonable safety from terrorism & thinks nothing of it. What does that tell you about his electorate ? Were all his supporters migrants from these troubled lands with opium farming relatives ?

Hello there,Haigh, first get the meaning of "mercenaries" right then try again.

socratease

Just like Vietnam and Iraq,we are in Afghanistan based on a lie.The tax payer gets the bill for the weapons and soldiers die for profit.

Thankyou Bruce for an objective analysis of the situation and your call for our withdrawl.

The only think lacking was the outright exposure of the immorality and illegality of the invasion.

Thankyou Bruce for an objective analysis of the situation and your call for our withdrawl.
Nigel,
Afganistan is far too serious a situation for academic jokes.

N Koreas Kim and Irans Imadinnerjacket will die laughing at us before we've all had a gutful of the ongoing, sickening carnage and waste that we've caused ends, without a single heart or mind onside. The US governmentt doesn't realise that the enemy doesn't need to kill Americans, they want to kill off the US economy, and are doing a good job of it so far, with 43 million Americans living on or under the Poverty Line, up 13 million since this never ending debacle began. The Taliban have sucked us in, as the Vietnamese did four decades ago. The Americans have now lost three conflicts in a row - Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East. Three strikes and you're out of the killing business, America. Melt your weapons and go home, brush up on the Chinese languages to help your future government settle in. Leave the senseless slaughter to the dictators.

"Afganistan is far too serious a situation for academic jokes"

Academics, politicians and other sycophants of great power lead us to war, using powerful institutions to market academic justifications for outright invasion, warmongering and murder.

There is nothing academic about calling an invasion an invasion, an occupation an occupation and unlawful killing as murder. (Whether it be American or Russian or Australian) .

The vast majority of academics are now attempting to justify the slaughter.

Ordinary codes of human decency which exist in our and every human community object to it.

Let us call from the rooftops, it is illegal, immoral and should end with fair compensation for all the victims.

Ordinary codes of human decency which exist in our and every human community object to it.
Nigel,
I agree with your post in general however, the above sentence is somewhat of a catch 22. Yes it should be human decency to protect life BUT, the old but creeps in again here, isn't it also human decency to do away with humans who don't have any decency ? It'll get the those who keep God awake at all hours who'll jump up & down at my understanding of one of the 10 commandments. The one that says thou shalt not kill. I think this is a misinterpretation & more likely was meant to mean thou shalt not murder. Huge difference there. I for one can't see anything sinful it doing away with a bad human being that is a threat to good human beings.

We are supposed to be a democracy here in Australia.
If this were really true, then it would seem to be logical to have a referendum on so important a case as invading another country.
I wonder what the result would be assuming that the question was not slanted as is usually the case when the government runs a referendum.